Emerge N See

Change Without Conflict

2007-09-10T11:00:00.000Z

this is just a chunk from an e mail i sent to my mate mark, mark has really been helping me get a handle on discipleship post construct:

you are now officially one third of my present life narrative. really got a lot of perspective to reflect on and bounce about with others from our little too and fro's.
One guy in seattle 'casey', he said that it was an odd time for him (us) in that we are not used to moving or making choices without some form of life stress or conflict which we feel God is in. Seems to be space at present to make choices and decisions without those things.
My reflection on that is that its odd indeed and unsettling, cause we can relate to god more in the life shift through conflict, and that means that we can carry residual guilt at the choices we make at present without stress or conflict. We can feel like SELFishness is creeping in, that we are too much in the driving seat with god as passenger as their is insufficient pain. If that were the case, it says something really bad about god which isnt true.
Guilt def: Punishing self in the absence of punishment or consequences from another. - Kind of Anti Grace.
Quite a few feeling lack of intimacy with god - which by and large relates to feeling... often we come from a experiential faith base which can trick us into thinking god is not near when we are lacking feeling or experience. Leanne Paine says thats a crock........... god is always fully here through his spirit in us, no more no less. Its been difficult detoxing that bit of church culture without feeling we left God somewhere, or due to lack of familiar ritual and practices, we are no longer close.

goes so deep this stuff, layer after layer eh matey.
gaz

DISRUPTION

2007-07-13T13:53:00.000Z

Gods Will Is A Tightrope? Gods Will Is a Field To Explore? No Boxes! That dude God killed for stopping the arc where God 'was' from falling and breaking...... ever wondered if he'd meant it to fall and for God to get out of the box.....???? ever wondered what he will do when we want to keep him in the box again thinking its the best thing to do still???

DANG - Its been a while, been head down arse up for a good while, lots to do, little to say.
Had a great guy pass through town to hang out and... a little like an episode of Sesame Street - The Days Words Were: Disruption - Acted Upon - Sub Cognitive

Man, if you can spend a day with someone and come away with one word you can hang your hat on, thats a good day, but three............ well theres some meat to chew on for the next month!!
1st:
Disruption
Jesus was a Disruptor, he broke into things, peoples timeframes, peoples paradigms, peoples sacred cows, peoples finances, peoples leadership ideas, peoples journeys as God people and a whole bunch of disruption with the lost and broken.
Sadly, as westerners who like to build straight church walls with squared off stones (which you cant do with living stones), we and our great ideas about shaping people towards percieved outcomes................ can GREATLY LIMIT JESUS ABILITY TO DISRUPT, bring disruption into the patterns of life and thinking that will inform and ultimately shape us into his likeness - into fullness.
THATS DISRUPTION - the next bit is about giving God opportunity for disruption.

ACTED UPON:
Some of our missiological thinking, our gung ho in Christ 'go change the world' (though we often dont act on it) thinking, means that we are the ACTORS upon others, our environments, our plans and life patterns.
My friend spoke of new disciplines which made me twitch and think, ' oh right - here we go, heres the oldskool rot sneaking in'. What he meant by disciplines was actually disrupting our own patterns to greatly increase the opportunity to be ACTED UPON, by God, through others, the found and lost alike, through creation, our environment etc.
Our ordered patterned lives and inherited church thinking often means order, it rarely puts us in a place of dis 'order' so it greatly limits the opportunity for the unplanned and the unexpected.
Park further from work. Heck, use public transport to be around others longer. You could even walk, walk a different route. This could help us walk more closely with Jesus the disruptor, allow ourselves to not be the ACTORS but to be ACTED UPON...... and i would imagine greatly increase our 'encounters and stories' which are shaping and informing us of who God is, who we are and our place in humanity.

SUB COGNITIVE
Western traits again.....................
We are often shaped in a very Cognitive way................. people feel the best thing they can do is create contexts and methods where they can speak to our minds to determine our actions. In counselling speak this is called cognitive behavioural therapy............ 'lets sit you down, change the way you think, and you will act and live differently'etc. This is for the larger part how we learn in christendom..
SUB CONGNITIVE sits very well with DISRUPTION and ACTED UPON thinking, in that it gives much more over to GOD who actually builds HIS church..... 'thats us, you and me if youve forgotten (not a structure or place)' .... to shape and inform us inline with his will and purposes..
Question: Do we believe that God will do this?

Sub cognitive means much less HEAD instruction to accomplish percieved and desired outcomes in straight lines. Sub Congnitive means that God intervenes into our thinking and informs our living through encounters with others and our environments.
Not sure if im unpacking it there.................. but basically the question is: Can God get you to where you need to be just as effectively without the directive, controlled, measured, westernised processes that have been adopted as primary tools in religion?

I will leave you with that.
SubCognitive revelation of God and self which shapes us and achieved through new disciplines which break learned limiting patterns and lifestyle rituals ....better enabling Jesus to engage with us as Disruptor and for us to become more like him and enriched by being ACTED UPON.

Ding Dong
g

Our fight is against flesh and blood?

2007-01-23T16:28:00.000Z

This has bugged me for many years as a rather passive way to deal with difficult people in difficult situations. Its theologically correct, our fight is not against the person who is in front of us or the head of a group or the boss at work, but the forced which have robbed and corrupted those people over many years or even in the immediate - this week maybe.
HOWEVER............................. I am often confronted with Flesh and Blood, particularly Christians far from flowing from the fruit of the spirit. I am confident in saying..... in those moments, i am indeed fighting against flesh and blood. Also, how i deal with that person in that moment could determine the outcome of their own fight against apparent unseen forces in spiritual places.
WHY do i say this? Because people who should know better, at times give themselves to those forces instead of Christ will for them or the situation. When i face a person who is IN Christ but not partnering with His WILL and His WAY...... then my wrestle is WITH them and at times very much a wrestle FOR them, for them to bring their will inline with christs will for their life.
When we say 'our fight is not with them', it can often mean we avoid conflict / confrontation and a possibly important opportunity for both of us to grow in Christ.

When i deal with religious institutional spirits in hidden dark places, i tend to meet them in wonderful Christian people, which is often the first point of dealing with it. Why? Because, for all the good intent in the world, if you covenant with legalism and empire, your giving permission....YOUR giving permission for that to function and express itself through you. Owning that is the beginning of overturning it. Most strongholds need a submission of mind and will to function.

Do you get what i mean? Difficult to explain, but i think its a real issue. If folks covenant with strongholds, my first fight is with them, so i give back to them the rubbish theyve just tried to lay on me, and then for them that they might be free of it. As much as i might pray for what binds them in the private place, nothing is going to work quite so well as someone bringing their own will inline with Gods will for them?
In the parable of the sower....the whole summary of potential stumbles seems to hang on: 'that they did not understand'. Its our thoughts that need to be held captive under heaven (which dictate our values, our sense of self, our practices) and sometimes wrestling with a person for their mind to be under heaven can release them from the spiritual, even give them choices.

Just a passing warble.
g

Carbon Footprint

2006-12-06T16:11:00.000Z

Hi, im at a get together with some folks who are standing in new ways (sounds like a human art instalation doesnt it) and we are looking at power. The phrase carbon footprint may be a familiar one, its how we measure the negative impact we are making with emissions and other stuff on our towns cities and nations.
It was used to day to reference power, and how are we going to use perhaps unavoidable power in function to leave a light an imprint as possible on people. For example, in our contact with people in being used of God for their benefit, how do we give them what they need without taking a position that benefits us, keeps them stuck in a permissive or un empowered place etc.
Really good stuff in chats - Wondered what you thought?
We have so far looked at how it is our desire to use any places of influence God has given us in a redemptive manner, which needs to recognise the current landscape and that we do not have a blank canvas to start from. Whats is out there is people in positions of powere that lord it over, there are people who are used to submitting unhelpfullyinto power, there are people who do now know they have power and choice etc. In recognising this it was felt that it just isnt helpful to say, OK so we used to lead top down, go get a vision from God with our 'team' whoa re already bought in them come to you and sell it to you convincingly....................... to suddenly saying, Hi - we are the same you and i, our vision is as diverse as your vision, how can i help you come to the fulness of who you are and not the fulness of who i am??????

It was fetl that to even begin to utilise influecne God has given us, that we need to deal with peoples projecting onto us and pre disposition to see us a re inforcing the old. We are in transition folks, if we werent, this group im with wouldnt even be having the conversation.

One comment was how Counsellor/Client relationships have a positive thing in place called Contractual Relationship, in this we say what the relationship is about and what it isnt, deal with any possible wrong expectations for us to continue safely and begin to build trust for the benefit OF THE OTHER quickly. Now obviously, thats too rigid and woudl be wierd in the course of life encounters. BUT in reality it is the nature of how many are communicating in the necessary period of transition. People are FACILITATING meeting and vision, they are coming alongside peoples visions and not gathering aroudn theirs, they are saying things like : what would you like to do with this time, how can i best serve you, how can WE best function together, Im not saying this with any presumption that i am right etc etc etc............. people are saying 'what they are not, and put a framework of woprds and phrases in places to de centralise themselves and equalise any contributions they might make. In reality, you cannot give people power which was their and the only thing you can do is get out of their way........... but if we have stood in the way of people findign their feet and finding healthy interdependance - we may need to help folks in the adjustment having given ourselves to somethign else for so long.
your thoughts?????? - sorry - using a public pc so not time to check spelling and cohesiveness - read in between the lines.
gaz

snippit re last blog

2006-10-19T18:16:00.000Z

A friend (always spell heck as its not nice to call someone a fiend) sent me a summary of a regional prayer gathering shortly after i wrote the last blog bit - i felt it tied in nicely to what i was trying to convey.

"The first session focussed on repentance within the church. The question was asked ‘how can the Church intercede if it itself needs forgiveness?"

We're All Prisoners Here 'We Built These Walls With Blood And Fear'

2006-10-19T08:50:00.000Z

We're All Prisoners Here - We built these walls with blood and fear.
Or so goes a line from a song my mates band have just produced. i dont know the context but i can 'wonder'. Im more into the bit that goes 'we need some liberty tonight'.

I work with some great guys in congregation contexts of church. I heard someone use a 'generalistation' for churches who have woken up to impacting communites beyond their separate sub cultures they have built /inherited. He said, 'yeah, like those emergent - without walls churches'.
So... it would seem that one church i work with is now emergent? Based on the fact that as their caretaker i spent 2 hours errecting a glossy banner outside saying CHURCH WITHOUT WALLS......... as soon as i finished, the postman came by and said ' lovely banner - when do the bulldozers move in?'.............. ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.(ive seen one such sign in previous years with a 'b' inserted in place of a W - could have been prophetic).
Anyway - ta mr posty - I guess it points just a little to how such a phrase and banner is for the church, and not for the lost who frankly, it means little to and is probably confusing, but HEY, if His banner over us is Love is now well established and we can have something else there to shape and form our intent.....go for it i say. But i would be very wary personally of putting anything up in public that is simply a statement of INTENT, as there is a huge ravine in between INTENT and REALITY.
In those up front pastor of a congregation days, on several occassions i could be heard to say....... What Jesus Intended - JESUS DID.

In fact, ive been with three congregations in the last week who have said with real positivity - 'We Are WOrking Out How TO Move Towards The Community'. I find that encouraging but i also find it so SO UTTERLY TERRIBLE IT RATTLES MY BACK TEETH. I have found that we can float this new idea around of 'moving towards community' and generally, in my personal view... NOT SPEND TIME IN SACK CLOTH AND ASHES IN REPENTANCE FOR HOW FOR MANY HUNDREDS OF YEARS OUR PLATONIC AND CONSTANTIAN DUALISM HAS ROBBED THOSE WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IN OUR LOCALITIES>>>>> ROBBED THEM OF THE KINGDOM COME!! ROBBED MANY GENERATIONS OF FATHERS MOTHERS SONS AND DAUGHTERS. (and we may even rob a couple more while we work out if our stuctures can be utterly re shaped to serve Gods will in mission ..... or not)

It sounds to me like something interesting is happening, but with no more weight to it than that, but surely someone needs a slap?? Dont they?.....or at least they/we need to soak in grace fully aware of how OFF THE MARK we have functioned and how sinful our congregational selfishness has been. ITs gotta be a context to be aware of what we deserve, but what His grace will yet again see us through. Im just reminded of Nehemiah gathering all inhabitants of the new city in the square and before moving into launvh mode - signing up in recognition of where they had failed - doesnt this moment need marking? Recognition and Repentance?
"We are really working hard on ideas for outreach" i was told yesterday....to which i had to reply, 'thats just great - as long as you know YOU CAN ONLY REACH OUT TO SOMEWHERE YOU HAVE REMOVED YOURSELF FROM!!
Surely these new ideas must come with a weight of conviction from the holdy spirit - but what i sense is a nudge, maybe even a 'well weve really been around the houses inside the church with this strategy and that model - so lets try something outside - could be a good thing in the mix'. Where is the weight - Where is the Travail and the Mourning in response the the cry of the land yearning for the sons and daughters of our god to be revealed!!!!!

Church Without Walls..............we should be ashamed to have that as a publicity campaign - really ashamed (if you catch the non literal spirit of what im saying, that is - i really dont care about a sign - but i care about its implications or opportunites it could provoke). I really do pray for a bulldozing conviction from the holy spirit that will overcome strongholds/walls of practice, culture which has become spiritualised and anything which re inforces dualism (more spiritual here than out there - God is more here than out there etc)........... In Fact - i really dont care if the postman is dissapointed and the physical walls remain, cause those could come down and the walls in our minds and practices still hide us from the world on its knees.

Gosh...... bit of a meaty chunk.....must have felt provoked.

Im gonna keep saying it "CAST OFF ALL THAT HINDERS AND CONSTRAINS" both you personally for you and for the works of the advancing kingdom through you. Remember playing kiss chase in the school playground ? (hopefully it was a mixed sex school)- id like to say i was good looking enough to have joined in - but cant, Or another game called lergy....... now i got to play that for some reason - someone had 'IT' and we ran and in touching someone else, they then had IT whatever IT was, didnt seem a very nice thing to have. BUT - in a redeemed form of that..... Here Goes.... touch....... YOUR IT. (Gods only agents of the kingdom will of the Father)

gaz out

Big Beefy Boy

2006-09-28T19:01:00.000Z

My wife is great, she is so much more interesting than me and just to prove it, fo rthe last 2 years she has taken part in something called the Dorset Doddle, which isnt a doddle (slow walk) at all, as its 32 miles in one go. When she arrives back with her near 60 year old father - both look as though they have lost at least a year of their lives, they look hollow with that "never again" + "why oh why" look about them.
This week my wife said 'lets go for a walk' together, somewhere secret, it will be a surprise. Ok, i said humouring her........she sits to put her thin and thick pairs of super socks on and now very 'used' walking boots.................. i dont have walking boots, so i opt for super comfey trainers, the kind that would pass for a pair of slippers to go with your tv, pipe tobacco and newspaper.
Ok...... so it become apparant that we are goping to walk along the coast, up very high hills and rocky paths with steep inclines and falls. We walk for an hour and a half before i ask where we are heading................................ which, according to how i recieved the information sounded very much like a circuit......we keep walking and end up back at the car. 2 hours in a realise that we have to go back the way we came.......... i look back across the cliffs, along the coast and my spirit of wife pleasing promptly takes a nose dive. I talk her into not taking us all the way, so we head back and by the grace of god meet a man who says we can indeed walk in a circle.
So, we are on the last stretch of track with trees in the distance and car park awaiting when i turn to her and say, 'see those trees over there - if youd of said we were gonna go just that far i would have told you to get stuffed and get the car'. I am not a walker (can you hear the winging teen trying to get out).

Anyways.............. i had a meet with a senior leader in town this week, one i respect and so i ask him to convince me that 10 years on, we wont still be trying to transition the culture of the church, and will indeed have begun to focus wholeheartedly upon the church changing the culture of our town. As only a much older leader can, he points out how the church really didnt have a whole lot to shout about in the fifties, and it has, indeed since then been through a constant barrage of Gods awakening and reforming. He listed many awesome things that have occurred in terms of change which i have to conceed, are pretty awesome for a new boy who wants it all now and wont take no or later for an answer. Anyways, we both arrived at a place of not really being able to answer that question - that God wont still be having to fix the body, and that perhaps - until He comes again, this is going to be a constant.

SO that leaves me with another question, " IF that IS likely to be a constant, then its pretty conclusive that we must - in the mix - get beyond ourselves, get past our own need for change and dispite defecits - BECOME AGENTS OF CHANGE ELSWHERE, if not as a primary aim, it at the very least needs to be a shared aim.
In light of that question i am feeling that soon and very soon we must do that, shift our focus of energy and generational effort. Otherwise we say to the children - "mummy and daddy are having counselling at the moment (yes - again), so if you wouldnt mind putting your lives on hold until we have done - thatd be lovely.
I am reminded at times of thinking such as this, that the disciples and apostles lived and died, living and engaing the lost as though Christs return was imminent, in their lifetime even. So whats going on 2000 years on from that? Do we still engage the lost like He is coming back very soon, tomorrow maybe? I dont think this is often in our frame of reference, neither of our time, our energy, our leadership etc.
Ill repeat myself: God wants you well for you, God needs you well for THEM, but how well is well when God uses a broken army to get his will done?

I really dont want to spend a lifetime adjusting the church and not extending the kingdom. Not to be confused with 'adding to the church construct' which in my view isnt wholly extending the kingdom - but making people safe (addition - not multiplication).
Back to walking:
Its not that i dont like walking or that i wont walk - but i want to get somewhere far more than i want to walk as a past time or leisure pursuit 0r even for a 'personal' challenge. I want to see church change, i WILL give time to that, but not as an end in itself, not for something to do or to fulfill a narrow mandate that i hope will lead to the other stuff happening - it has to be For something - for someone, perhaps everyone.

Bla d bla
Gaz

Cross Generational Anointing

2006-08-22T15:49:00.000Z

Hi - theres quite a long response to comments on the below 'losing my religion' article, about transitionary culture and cross generation anointing. all badly spelt.

Losing My Religion

2006-08-10T10:39:00.000Z

Or am i losing my faith............................ quite a worrying thing to say out loud.
I dont think im having a crisis of faith, but im definately losing sleep to a crisis of perspective, rather reminiscent of having a bit of metal removed from my eye ball once. Apparantly, if you put up with if for a day or so, the eye grows a layer of skin over the debris to protect the rest of the eye and eyelid from further damage. So, having done the above in the hope that nature would take its course and it would get better of its own accord, i find myself at the eye hospital in a head brace with a lady saying 'Keep Looking Ahead', while she uses the needle from a syringe to free the debris from its new embedded home. The part that im relating to here is she is saying look straight ahead, and all the time she is shoving a needle in my eye and moving my field of vision at her command with every poke and stab. Yeah - so, thats what im feeling regards life and vision and stuff, and its all been contextulaised in the below inner voice conversation.

Just been on hols to a farmouse in a tiny village in rural ultra catholic france. Its all villages, different communities and you can see each new village from the last, and each has a church of its own. So around my village is 10 other villages with 10 other churches. So, im beginning to think what i could contribute if i moved there, trying it on for size, getting some vision and perspective and dreaming a few contexts to make a contribution.
The funny thing is that God knows im a visual person, so in our village the Marie (mayor and civic offices) are bang next door to the church. Do i work with the church (static) to serve the community, or do i work with the mayor. It may be plausible that both are christian, but if the mayors office was not, who would most be serving the purpouses of the kingdom.
I know this is all a bit bla de bla, i did say it was my inner voice, but its actually a real issue, thinking it through in a real place with real people and real opportunities and yet, two buildings representing potentially two differing governments and yet both or one may serve the purposes of God more, Which?? Honestly? I am flummuxed, the needle in my eye bending my line of sight this way and that as i ask the same old questions in a new setting.
I am worried that i risk something that the sally army did, which was starting as a fully dynamic cross cultural mission during the war years (christian words to songs s sang in pubs and donning uniforms in uniformed norm) to actually being increasingly about one hand of the two handed gospel - social action. I m concerned that i am being more drawn to see the quality of lives improve over and above a communication of who jesus is? Really................... lots to chew over at present. Perhaps i am feeling the void of church which is full of words and little action, invisible to the community around it, unmissed if it dissapeared tomorrow. would my town feel the pain of the kingdom withdrawing from it? If the church walked out of town tomorrow, would anyone notice, and if not, had the kingdom come there at all?
I wonder how mother theresa did it? Her angle was less to be jesus to people, and more that she poured herself into others believing herself to be serving jesus in each of them, as unto the lord himself. hands and words? hands before words? hands over words?

g
puzzling

new mediums - face to faith mag

2006-07-12T19:32:00.000Z

Hello -not the clairvoyant kind.
Been a while, ive been busy doing a second magazine for locals - gone really well, shifted 700 in a week with churches that took 10 last time taking 50 this time and a catholic school taking them for year 6/7 which i didnt see coming.
A friend of mine jon is taking the whole story thing to another level with a web, kind of face to faith 'plus', sharing some of the stories of everyday folks cutting it up, but also the web will have a communication life of its own. Pushing the ethos of unity and saints in life and work doing their things in their primary mission fields. Cant wait. You can get a sniff of the mag at www.facetofaith.co.uk but nothing fancy................... jons web will be called Faith Shaped Life - gonna be a doooozy - will keep you posted. (also guys here have just launched a site for christian in health and caring proffessions (www.healthconnect.org.uk)
Its my 40th today - im full of cream cake and real ale - yuk.....BURP! happy birthday to me happy birthday to me etc
gaz
x
picture of my mate nick in portugal - as excited as i was that you can get beer in mc donalds.

See Comments On Previous Blog - Good Stuff

2006-06-05T11:34:00.000Z

look too at the bit on communion as its dangerous but challenging.

Happy Leaders Net Does Not A Unity Make

2006-05-29T08:59:00.000Z

SO, i was away recently and this guy was saying how awesome it was in his city that all these leaders were getting together regularly to pray - every single week, 30 -40 congregation leaders who were in relationship.
A guy asked him "wow - that sounds really great - WHAT ARE YOU GUYS LOOKING TO DO?"

'DO???' he said, 'DO, Were not looking to do anything - doing something would damage the relationships weve formed !!!!!

"What Kind Of Relationships Are Those For Gods' Sake???????"

I have to say - ive been in very similar settings.................... where the idea of relationships becomes the Ideology. I also appreciate that we want relationship to be about more than task - but we do have a task - in gathering around jesus - there IS going to be a task - there IS a task already.
A friend once said you have to have Love and Truth combined...............otherwise you can love someone to .

Can you IMAGINE if the disciples were praying for the 14th consecutive week and nothing else, because they were celebrationg the victory of WE WANT TO BE TOGEEEETHER. Man oh Man - that would have seen the kingdom come wouldnt it.........NOT!

a nibble from a comment

2006-05-06T11:07:00.000Z

When we have pushed up against something in resistance - and it begins to move (if only in our heads) - we will either fall down - or step into the space.

theres a lot of meat in that tiny sentence.

ALSO

i think it was that brian fella that folks are reading who said:

We need to become the revolution we are desiring to see

man - you could spend all week pondering the outworkings of those two babies!!

Post Colonial

2006-04-30T15:47:00.000Z

If you dont know if your post modern or modern, just make darned sure that you are post colonial as i superceeds much of those other two things.
Post Colonial????
Are YOU Post Do$minant Culture
Are You Post Vested Interests
Are You Post Hierachy
Are You Post any divide that is counter to being All One In Christ - Priest Laity??
Are You Post ............................... what else do you think is embodied in the colonial empirical era that you need to be POST.............and are you. Thats the real question.

been a while

2006-04-30T15:23:00.000Z

Thats me - when i was young enough to have dreams, like going into space or being a stuntman. I didnt become either, but it held me in good stead to know i could have a dream and pursue it. I managed to get lots of bruises trying, and once i tried an excercise in faith - i flicked through a world map with a pencil and a blindfold and said = where i place this pencil God, i am willing to go. Really shouldnt have done it in front of my family cause id put the pencil on the moon !!!! I think part of me has been there ever since.

The Church Should Inhabit No Separate Sphere, But Inhabit All Spheres - Henry Drummond - Scotland.

Not new news, but always worth picking up on anything which highlights the uselessness of church as an independant sphere in society, instead of being functionally present in all spheres.

You Spin Me Right Round Baby Right Round Like A Record Baby Right Round Round Round (dead or alive) Concentic Circles of Church as weve known it.

Ohhhhhh so very bored now, bored of seeing more people's dreams rejected by the construct or at times worse, they are embraced and the individual becomes COMMODIFIED as the construct says this is now a vision of the church, dispite frequently having little to do with it once it gets the title 'church'.

One guy i met had approached a church leader to see if they had any people looking to connect cross denominationally to partner in a work amidst un churched youth. The pastor said, "no - we dont have anyone like that", my friend asked Are You Sure? "Yes totally sure - our church's vision is for 6 distinct things and this is not one of them, God will not have given us people who's vision is not one of these"......... All Puke Now!! Its even worse when you know that church does have someone with such a dream but they would never voice it because of something like this.

We had to save the world once - With Only 2 Weeks To Do It...Really !!!
I was at a conference for youth church and we got teamed up with ywamers and lots of mission practitioners who should know better.
We are told we are in a town and have two weeks to win everyone for christ before the end of the world. How were we going to do it????
Well, the group decided we NEED A COMMON VISION SO WE CAN BE OF ONE HEART AND MIND.............what a Crock !!! So, we indeed laid everything down, and wrestled to find a singular strategy. I tried to point out that we had doctors, dentists, tradesmen, shop owners, kids workers etc etc, who had located themselves for mission and to be christ, and you now want to pull them out of there to focus on a singular centred vision. How useful!!!

Really bored with this stuff at the moment........just goes round and round and round, there seem to be so few people who feel able to give themselves to what God has prepared for them, because they are valued for doing something other than this. Worse still, many churches i know now consider themselves to have DONE the workplace thing, because they have done a sermon on it and embraced some new corporate language about how community is expressed and where church lives, but have dont nothing structurally or operationally to allow any transition. What kind of process is that i wonder?

But i continue in faith, for the ones and the twos who will hopefully begin a critical mass situation and take this further than i ever could.
g

SPOT THE LEADER

2006-04-04T10:09:00.000Z

Ok - this is really from the archives, best quality ive got - sorry.
Anyways, this one is intended to be a simple visual stimulant.
This is Bliss community Summer 95 after we began it in Oct 94.
Can you spot the leaders?
No one in this picture is over 25
No one in this picture is using it as their youth group, nor are they pit stopping here for fun and real church is somewhere else for them. This is it - thrown in the pot and beginning a journey together. If the presence of the Holy Spirit at a gathering can be seen as a affirmation that your not doign something totally out of wack - then this one was a total God head fry, lots of vibrant pictures in my head even if this one is rather worn. Thats me flashing flesh in the front and johnny the main instigator sat down with my son jesse in front and daugther holly behind. Oh to be young again, oh to keep thinking life and not preparing for end of life . Cummon!

All That Glistens

2006-04-03T11:20:00.000Z

All That Glistens Is Not Gold.................... But I Tell You What
SOME OF IT DARNED WELL IS !

Im the ugly one with the fringe in the left corner(i had just become a christian some weeks earlier), this was my crew, my family, the MODRAPHENIACS DORSET SCOOTER CLUB - i think this was 86/87. The group pic was taken on the isle of wight rally in 1983, im in there somewhere.
My friends had names like skunkhead / skid / bugsy/ beef/trooper................... sounds like the guys youd storm the beaches of normandy with!

When i got into God at the age of 18, i walked away from all this, i walked away from popping pills (couldnt smoke dope - made me throw up), walked away from the adventures of getting off with lovely lassies at the weekend, walked away from getting into other peoples fights to vent my own repressed anger issues, walked away from what was accurately described in The WHO soundtrack film 'quadaraphenia' as A WAY OF LIFE........................ but what i hadnt appreciated at the time was, i was also walking away from my family, not my , but certainly my kith and kin (scots for family).
Last night i went to the final evening of a weekender, not far from where i live, for the modrapheniacs 30th anniversary, my older brother invited me, having been the scootering generation before me and a founder member in the 70's - number 4 to be precise. (he got honoured on stage last night as 'the unsung hero of the club' - i was well chuffed for him).

Anyways.... i will eventually get to the point as this isnt just a nostalgic rant.
There had been 2000 folks there over the weekend - 400 bikes went for a run into town, must of been a blast but i missed it. So - im there last night and it was a total delight, as grand a family reunion as anyone could wish to make in their family. People i could hardly recognise, names i could remember just about. People kept saying 'have you seen so and so, or so and so is here' i i couldnt remember half of them, people i had apparantly spent a lot of time with.
I felt...........................at times....................... that i was a complete and total arse. These folks had a continuum - while i had been divorced - i felt like i had been labotomised - that part of my memory had been taken - or worse, given up.
Why? Cause when i got into god at 18 i turned my back on this - why? cause thats what you did when you got into 'church' - church which separates itself off from life and you along with it as it takes you deep into the colon of its sub culture.
Last night i felt i had in some ways missed more than i had gained in that experience of separation. At one level i needed it, i was certainly well on my way to going ballistic before i got out of it, but to have separated off??????.................... very sad indeed. In part its the ideology of church, that it saves you FROM something, into something 'other' than what you were in. Why, becuase church alledgedly exists in a place other that where you are. And theres the problem. No one comes alongside you in what your in, they just rip you out of it..................... something I DO NOT see in the bible as a methodology of Jesus.

These folks i met again, they are great people, some have been married 20+ years with lovely kids, some have been far more loyal and nurturing in their relationships than one might generally see in some aspects of the church. There was some real gold there - some real gems of people who God loves and who, by the very nature of Gods creation, he is intrinsically in - they are made in HIS image, and there is much good there. Dont get me wrong, there were some total nightmares too, depending on whats side someone had gotten out of bed or what time of the month it was - me for instance!
It was my family - and can still be my family if i have finished separating off.
My nick name was SPROGG or SPROGGY. This came about cause at 15, when i would go over the pub to talk folks into giving me a lift out on sunday runs............ i was the youngest. One wonderful woman came up to me last night and said that 'I was called sprogg cause that meant 'baby' and the she used to mother me - they felt it was their duty to look after me and keep me from harm'. Isnt that wonderful, isnt that full of who God is and what Jesus longs to see.

I had to appologise last night to a few people, i felt if i was to have integrity that i needed to do this. I wanted to do this. I appologised for turning my back on them, for 'sodding off', for cutting myself off, and that it had been my loss'.
Actually - where i come from they call that repentance - and you dont do that unless you follow it up with a corresponding action. Its time for me to re join my family at one level, to re join the story of my tribe, maybe even bring a bit of jesus with me, who, whilst he is everywhere and most certainly around these guys.............. may not have been quite as present as he could of been had i stayed around. Thats something else to repent of too.

So................. the dj asked the modrapheniacs to get on the stage where everyone could see them, i didnt need to think twice about wether that meant me too...................... cause its family!

Also - in closing............... there were people who hadnt come this year but had come last year. I was sad to have missed them.................. isnt it good to feel things like that, sad that you missed people, that they matter, that they not just 'meant' something to you, but still 'mean' something too.

All that glistens might not be Gold - But some of it is!
g
(sprogg)

A New One On ME........... lets work it out

2006-03-21T19:13:00.000Z

Ok - thought i would try something new. Usually i am prone to making heartfelt statement, usually because im shouting at the silence where i see deficits. On this occassion, i really just want to chat - if anyone is listening.
In the uk, the church is in terminal decline, we are at approx 10% and dropping, some amercian futurists now say we are in terminal decline, past the point of no natural return without a total change or/and an inbreaking of God.
The question i ask (and mostly it relates to the saint being in a through all things), is this:

We are one in ten Right? What is going to result in that one in ten having a radical effect, how is that likely to unfold from where it is now, what type of people do the need to be, where do they need to be, how do they need to be. If we are to have a hope.

Answers on a postcard to..................................................... comments.
Look fwd to hearing from folks.
gaz

Cut and Paste

2006-03-21T19:08:00.000Z

Hi, ive put something rather special in as a comment. Its a transcript of a talk by larry randolf, given in California in 05. Its has some profound angles on Gods desired relationships and why we risk our lives keeping him boxed.
Go To This BLog Article - and Comments
Enjoy - its a goody!!

See Prodigals "comments"

Modern V Post Modern 'SPEAK'

2006-03-09T11:03:00.000Z

Cant recall if ive blogged on this but cant be bothered to trawl back to see - sorry if i repeat myself.
Sarah in one of the article comments where we have been chatting stuff around commented "I really love the dynamic aspect of learning through dialogue. I find it much more effective than the static lecture-style of traditional teaching and education". It prompted me.
There are two key transitional aspects of how we 'have' been communicating and how we 'Are' beginning to find it necessary to communicate. They conveniently sit well within modernism and post modernism.
Perhaps i should have called this Debate V Dialogue as thats more accurately what it is ( i wont touch on this here, but the whole lecture 'you sit i speak' thing is total modernism - where the less learned sit at the feet of the specialist - again something which is shifting. Interesting to note though - if this is becoming accepted as a poor method of teaching - why is it the primary method employed to communicate in church gatherings?).

Debate - most modernistic specialists (and their minions or those they have mentored) generally communicate through debate. It says 'this is what this means they enter into conversation with an already developed perspective which they state. Some of the conflict in modern/ post modern transitions for church is said to be the risk of POLARISATION - where we have two opinions, which become increasingly separate and off to the ends of opposing spectrums - even if they began quite central on the spectrum scale. Debate - does not end in polarisation............. it begins there. i think - as far as that goes - they also think it is right, until persuaded otherwise by a better statement of perspective'. As such it is generally full of both attack and defence........... therefore quickly moving to taking sides and moving further away from anything resembling co operation or a mediative view point.
Dialogue on the other hand has very different rules of engagment - statements are not made, instead views are offered into the mix, conversation is had with the potential for both parties walking away with a developed, informed, sharpened perspective. A verbal interraction takes place which both honours and values the view of the other. It does not mean we submit our values and views to another, but it does perhaps mean that if its meant to stand - it will.
Can you imagine being in relationship with someone who is modern - at takes their 'positions' out of the class room, out of the church pulpit and onto the street? people either wouldnt give them the time of day, or would become dependants who have been assimilated into the collective. When we have a position of leadership /eldership or even function in a leader at work setting - modernists are such a nightmare to be around when it comes to wanting to process anything new - not the best friend of the prophets thats for sure........... and at times, they even risk being the physical manifestation of a stronghold, no longer channels for Gods unfolding purposes, but bottlenecks! Im not saying that we dont need to be guardians of truth...but how we communicate truth in this shifting landscape, will determine how and if people walk into it.

Now - take this into some of the present tensions of church transition!!!!!
Just sit down modernist (most people leaders in their 50's onwards unless they did woodstock - but actually you can get a 20 year old so out of step with his own generation he is a modernist)
.sorry - my 'in brackets ' bits are longer than the other text...........start again...yeah so sit a modernist down with a post modernist............. youve got one poor guy going in wanting to SHARE a perspective and see where it goes, youve got the other fella holding onto a position waiting to debate and see who wins - see who gets disproved.
Often - you have one guy going in anxiously workign through how he is goign to justify some new thinking to someone who is holding onto the point that they have arrived at.
The modernist - will often walk away feeling he has maintained a position and won a piece of ground - the post modernist if he is insecure - walking away feeling the kingdom has just gone backwards and not advanced - he will also submit to the lecture of the specialist - who has been to seminary so must be right.
However..................... the true post modernist - knows the rules of the game, that doesnt mean he goes in armed to win the game............... it means that he refuses to play at all.
Debate V Dialogue...................... one is almost not conducive to the fruit of the spirit at all if you think about it!

did i mention the baptists

2006-03-07T17:22:00.000Z

I was at a European gathering in Prague in 05 with around 50 people from all over, people doing stuff out of the box, head and heart. We were all based at theeee Baptist Seminary of Europe, an odd place for us to meet one might think. Anyways - the funny things is, we got into a lot of trouble for doing an unauthorised baptism one afternoon in the fountain pool. Get that! getting done by the baptist for baptising someone without going through propper channels. I guess it being hot was no excuse for cooling a crate of beer in the same fountain the day before, with their having to drain and unblock the fountain of beer labels which had become unglued and floated off, probably didnt help things. www.connecteurope.org

See Prodigals "comments"

2006-03-07T12:55:00.000Z

Good stuff going in in the prodigals comments section - good chats - been writing a lot there and not here in response to stuff.

Home From The War

2006-03-07T12:24:00.000Z

Ive written this before but not here, but felt it goes well with some of the 'being more human' thread of conversation.

Some years back i felt i got a strong word from the Lord, i wrote in on my mirror facing me in the office (gosh he's so vain - a mirror facing him! - it was artily shattered so i cant see my face actualy)
Anyways - the word was "Gaz (god calls me gaz, not garry - cool eh) You Need To Come Home From The War"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And that was it for months - didnt know what it meant, didnt get what it was about at all, not usual for me, usually im pretty quick.
So anyways..........
My wife bought me this book for Christmas called 'the soldiers return'. I like reading war books - love war documentaries etc. My dad fought in Burma against the Japanese, which effected him and therefore our family to some degree - every one who's touched war brings a shadow home with them.
So i start reading this book, get through the first chapter and then it was gathering dust for months. End of story - or so i thought.
I realised that i had bought into a very specific part of the Christian story, that i was draw to one elment of what it means to be a believer.......... i was a soldier, i was in Gods army, i was FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT, people would fall to my left and to my right but my face was set like flint etc etc. There is a surprising amount of war and soldier language and reference points to our faith - dont you think?

Anyways - thats me to the bone - Garry is derived from Gareth which actually means 'spear bearer for the king' etc etc - the scene was set there really.

So................... part two of the word comes from someone. "gaz - if your always at war - your in danger of forgetting what it is your fighting for". then it hits me......................
I read this book for the first chapter.............. the guys in war, he has a long travel home on a boat, then a train, then a logn bot about his walk through his old village, towards his street and eventually up the steps of his home, puts his duffle bag down - turns the handle,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and,,,,,,,,, i have no idea what happened after that, because i was completely dis interested.

Actually i remember what glued it together for me - it was a random scripture someone had sent to me, it was all about their BEING PEACE IN THE LAND for many years.

I was interested in war - in the fight, but i wasnt interested in the other stuff - home doesnt make you a hero, doesnt get applauded in ministry journals, doesnt get songs written about it.

God had said 'GAZ - YOU NEED TO COME HOME FROM THE WAR'. I needed to go through a paradigm shift, a shift in values, a shift in focus.
What the heck does it mean to have peace in the land................. oh my goodness, thats what its meant to be about.........what does it mean to have peace in the land - for 'it to be well with you and yours'? Somehow, i felt God was saying that i was at risk of fighting the good fight, but forgetting what the good fight was for, that it is for literal things, thinsg that will effect my family, my home, my street. i needed to be in some of that, to relish some of that, to give myself to some of that, or i will foget the whole point of the war. We need to be embodying the promises of God - this in and of itself is testimony - and it overcomes.

A place in London has a 'tranform our city' thing going with lots of churches and organisations working to that end, christian or otherwise. their publicity serves as a good reminder that there is a life that God wants for us, not just in heaven, but here and now. Surely this is the fight?
and their i will end:

“Come to Haringey…..where our schools are over-achieving; where houses are homes and lives are whole; where it’s safe to walk the streets day and night; where racial and cultural barriers no longer divide; where Jesus is the topic of conversation in cafes and street corners; where the knowledge of the glory of God is everywhere….. pipe dream or reality?"

Conference - Return of Prodigals?? YEAH RIGHT!

2006-03-01T14:58:00.000Z

Some of my friends are at a conference, some great folks from a local congregation. (hey its snowing here , just wanted to mention that, its england, 2" of snow and everything shuts down, indistry stops and we all starve, may even have to speak to our neighbours so thoughts id mention it) Yeah, so they are at this conference called something like 'the Prodigals return'. Now ive watched a bit of the video version, and whilst i didnt watch it all, the general vibe seemd to be based upon a very dysfunctional enterpretation of scripture to re enforce and equally dysfunctional paradigm of church.
SO..... the general premise.................... The Prodigals (i.e; those who are in rebellion and left) are going to return, and we must prepare. In short, people who have left the church who are most probably in rebellion, unwilling to come under authority, ill disciplined waifs, are going to come back to the church, and we the church (as organisation and human construct) must prepare, so no more bitching, back biting, criticising each other, lets get our house in order so they will like it the second time around - cook all our fatted calves now so it smeel appetising.. WHAT A TOTAL CROCK OF BROWN SMELLY STUFF.
Firstly, the only conceivable paradigm of the prodigal story relates to a deeply personal reconciling with the father, and the fathers house - namely our eternal destiny, the church construct is not Gods house, if anything on earth is, it us as individuals with the spirits indwelling. So - thats a pile of pants. Secondly, the prodigal was not in crisis with his father...... interestingly enough............. he was desperate for independance which he went off to explore. One of the most natural of human processes. He didnt complain about his environment either, this was a deeply personal decision, apparantly not to do with external factors but instead one of inner searching.

So, how you make this 'parable' - this illustration of deep human issues - about the church as centre, i have no idea. How you then turn that into preparation by changing what takes place there - i do not see either in the story. Proof texting at its worst!
OH ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD its is the congregational default mechanism of dysfunctional parent to assume the issue is with the child int he first place. Of the hundreds of people i have met who have left the construct over 15 years............. i could count on one hand those id percieve to be in actual rebellion to the Father.

From my own perspective - there is another prodigal who is absent from the parables, the one who distanced himself from the Father, went off and used his gifts / inheritance wisely and was able to stand on his own two feet. Shortly after all of his successes, he came back to the father and said 'father - i choose you, you are worthy of all my best efforts because of who you are, not because of what i need or can get from you.'
I know as many folks like this as i do ones who have fallen on their faces and come back to the father.
The issue is not how crap it is away from God, but that proximity to the Father and intimacy with the Father is central to any given situation or outcome.
Personally i feel this one parable, and one angle on the story feeds our victim mentality, that you have to be on your knees before you come to the father, when in fact, we are told to walk boldly into His presence, where i am certain that all, weak or strong - will fall prostrate in His presence.
Know any Part 2 Prodigals?? who went off in search of independance, the ability to stand on their own two feet and chose Christ? Chose the Father?

Im not complaining - just trying to paint a fuller picture (well i am complaining if the prodigal story is about church growth), i think its sad if we do the 'jesus is our crutch' theme as the main story here. Bit like the guy who came up to me and said 'id thought about becoming a Christian - i mean, it all makes sense, but i havent because ive not been abused nor am i a addict'!

Will we only come to Him when we are weak? or will we also come to Him when we are strong, when it isnt about us, when its only about Him?.

I dont agree with this breakdown but it was useful once:
A Prodigal - Someone who has separated themselves due to rebellion with God.
Action - Watch and Pray for their Return
Lost Sheep (which actually is still in the prodigal story) - Lost Their Way
Action - Go Get Them

But, then i would add this one.
Cant Even Walk - I discovered this definition in a Kev Prosche song "when you cant even walk - onto the field of Grace" those who are just so wounded we need to carry them regardless.
g-man

Dang - Been A While

2006-02-25T20:38:00.000Z

Gosh - its been weeks since i last blogged, must have found some people i can touch with my skin who listen to my rants. Sorry ive been away so long. Been having a few weeks off, if you can do such a thing - went to portugal, which i will remember for winter sun, dog pooh everywhere and as many dealers as police, usually in the same place at the same time. "Would you like some sunglasses sir, or what about this large lump of hash", makes a change, usually people come up to me thinking i sell it.

Mostly ive been re inventing myself or rediscovering myself, been going to gigs a lot and have been asked to have a pastoral role to a great band called the plymouths - really cutting it up big stylee. see www.myspace.com/theplymouths ............ yes so that been great, it has much appeased my inner 25 year old who is not overly excited about this - his 40th year. Really great to be out at night be a little jesus dude around guys called and circus of .

Why this is good !!!!!!!!!
Been meeting some folks who are setting up a surf label which reflects their God centred values. Fair trade, quality garments and awesome imagery. Tess, one of the pair working on them does the art. One design has a christ on a cross shaped surfer, very majestic, but holding up a broken surf board. She wanted to show that this is a guy who has gone to the edge for his sport, a guy who has grabbed whats in his belly and touched something deeply primal. She says that she wants it to reflect energy, primal emotions........... where people are drawn towards creation and as such, in that moment, touch something special and raw about the creator - God.
Wow.....something Primal............. something Human...........Something Created.
Im having this sabbatical, and dispite attempts for do something obviously christian, i have sat in town squares in foreign countries with a friend talking total and wonderful rubbish, i have gone to gigs and been loud and laid in bed afterwards with my ears ringing at possible irrepairable damage. I have read a psychology book on understanding dreams and nightmares and another non christian but faith filled book about how a handful of the right people at the right time in the right place can be instrumental in a social epidemic on a huge scale.......... As such, in this moment, after many years of pursuing how to be a better chrisian, i am instead pursuing how to be a better human, to touch something of the raw creation in me (within redemptions boundaries) and as such, am finding something very fresh, very ALIVE making about the creator.
I wonder, and i know im splitting hairs here, but can we become a better christian without becoming more fully human?? Perhaps an over emphasis on the former does not, as one would hope, lead us to the latter like we are told it should. I know some people out there have become something other than human, something unreal, something sudospiritual in their search for life but have found something unlife instead.

Church........ I am still enjoing being church immensely, learning all the time what it means (as they say in moulon rouge) to be loved and to love in return, to love and be loved in return something like that.

Oh - got a chapter in a mates book - hoorah! a mans book about mans things which wives cant look at, although im very pleased to have ran the chapter on my single exploits and getting my head straight, past the wife first - phew - just the other readers ive to worry about now ! gulp
Oh - on another sad note - my wife has admitted that my long goatee and long hair makes me look like a bit of a muppet! She didnt mean that as a term of fun loving bright cuddly indearment. Dang! Spent the afternoon watching bikers builind choppers on sky tv - some old guy with long hair and a beard..................... my wife came in and said.......... Hey, dont get any funny ideas................. 'What - Me?'

CHURCH FOR THE NIGHT 'pic gallery link'

2005-12-19T07:52:00.000Z

Some folks in our town of Bournemouth, some post congers and some not but all working for the city and some working in night clubs............. opened up the biggest Anglican church in town from 10pm till 3 am on Friday night. All were totally taken by surprise as a steady stream of over 100 people came and walked around, sat for a long time and posted prayers on the walls which would cut you to the core. Were all still in shock - opening up a big building associated with inherited religion in the middle of clubland, wasnt meant to gather a crowd, it was just a 'fools hope'.
From drunks to punks, from foreign students to clubber. There was this really uncool chicken wire sculpture which was lit internally and had mary joseph and jesus and coldplays 'i will try to fix you'............ people kept having their picture taken with them - very odd.
Almost every single person that came in INITITIATED conversation about Jesus or Church. One guy - one BIG guy slapped me on the chest and said ' F$c%ing Awesome Mate - We Need Night Church All Night Every Night - And I Mean That'.
GREAT PICS BELOW
http://www.flickr.com/photos/19047354@N00/sets/1596051/

SAYING OF THE WEEK

2005-12-19T07:44:00.000Z

A congregation in town going through real transitions has just had an open dialogue with its folks.
One person got up, shared a few contextual expletives, held up a verbal mirror of reality which DID NOT say 'you are the fairest in the land' - and then said ' I WOULD RATHER THAT WE WERE A DYSFUNCTIONAL AND HONEST FAMILY THAN A FUNCTIONAL LIE' meaning lets dump the pretense we present, lets stop pretending to live out our publicity on the surface and loosing sight of finding some gutsy substance.

keeping teens in the church

2005-11-29T16:46:00.000Z

Hi - i picked up an article while surfing by mistake - it was a strategy for family and a strategy for church and involved several circles, parents in the inner, kids in the outer and church as a whole other circle...anyways, thought i would blog you my response:

The only thing that concerned me was of a paradigm nature. Whilst church is seen as a place, a geography and a set of diary connecting points - then it continues to be a separate circle to the family. I think there is less issues once we cease to place family in the church (as separate from life thus dualistic) and more benefits by trying to live church in the family. Also family is often the for church and not visa versa, wherby, we need to find a way for teens to transition into healthy interdependance - a dysfunction is some families is it fails to transition this life phase well and so there is a break from family, instead of an adjustment to the relationship nature within family. When the parents cannot transition this adjustment and change, kids fly the nest.

While church measures obedience and commitment by its proximity to the centre - then teens can leave the church, when family is measure through procimity to the parents, then teens break from the home (but often only in the parents worldview oor in this case the church as centres worldview). When church becomes people and relationships and family and not building / denomination / paid up members and diary..................... it is something that teens cant leave so readily.

Church does not have a family home in Christ, church has a home in christ. When we allow this centralised thinking - then teens have a nest to fly from. When the family home is centre, detachment from this seems to be a break in family..........but this is not meant to be the case. The for church is family, the for family is not the church, as church, the fullness of Christ which is in and through all things, is also through family - which if Christs resides there - is also church.

We have some huge changes to make i feel. In the UK we have between 600 and 800 youth leave the uk church each week, this includes the new churches. Outside the 'centre church' which has established itself as separate from life to keep people safe for heaven.............. there are now hundreds of thousands of youth becoming s, who never gave up on God, but found the constructed family home with such close proximity to patriarchs ..., a straight jacket.

If we find a way to have church once again in and through all things, we will find a great many old family members who will walk with us again.

sigh of relief

2005-11-10T21:01:00.000Z

Im wacked out - been working on a townwide magazine to put reforming stories in the hands of everyday folks to fuel the people movement. will be back in the flow soon.
g

Endless Journey

2005-10-29T18:34:00.000Z

Someone once said - There are no Straight lines in creation................... which i thought was an amusing response to some criticisms of our not knowing where we are going or what things will look like.
Another nugget is - we like to have a box - so we know where the corners 'are' when we want to explore them, others who feel they have arrived tend to like a circle to describe their church journey - i rather prefer the straight limne scenario............ a journey with a revelation of Jesus at one end and heaved in fullness at the other - and who know what inbetween.

I have take the bold step of sending some questions out to the folks ive been walking with out of the box for the last 3 years - seemed like a good time to ask some.
Everyone so far has made a big issue out of how they have had to take a whole other level of personal responsibility for their faith having substance and personal responsibility for following jesus - and how doing so has made a significant impact on who they are and where they are going - Not bad for a bunch who havent had a formal 'everyone' get together in the same time and space for over a year!

I know ive said this before - but ill say it again - a friend of mine called sarah once said - we shouldnt be afraid of space, God will bring creation order within the space if we let him - and creation always has 'family' and right relationship a its core.

Its good you know - feeling people are growing up around you, you included, and i have to say, more because of what ive 'not' done as a leader.

What Do You Mean Organic??

2005-10-24T22:09:00.000Z

Thats was what Alexander from simple church was asked this weekend. "what do you mean when you say organic" - to which he replied................. "i mean, as untouched as possible by human hands - no addtives or preservatives" NUFF SAID!
Oh another nugget i picked up somewhere - i like working with Unchurched (not been handled) and Dechurched (kind of detoxed after they have been handled)

Whats The Fruit

2005-10-24T22:00:00.000Z

So - Whats The Fruit Of The Apple Tree?
pause for thought
I was at a get together recently and a friend of mine called diane said that she felt God was asking her to not measure herself or where she invests in terms of FRUIT, but instead in terms on reproduction. We can, and do, often measure our 'fixed point of reference activities' in terms of their fruit. I know a great many churches who have 'GROWN' numerically, and some not just by ones and two's. They have seen some very broken people come to a place of living 'fruitfully'. There are often events and initiatives where we can say there either was or was not fruit.
However - measuring something in terms of its fruitfulness may not be how Christ would measure it, particularly in a church climate of ADDITION instead of MULTIPLICATION.
So............ this wonderful lady is looking to her home, and her children, and so investing in them that they become reproducers just as she is a reproducer. You see - we can have fruit, and not fulfill what God is asking of us. I felt it was an important point of reference - we oh so often measure by fruit - after all - it says things will be 'known' by their fruit............... but what if fruit is not the end result?
oh the answer..................... the fruit of an apple tree.................. is another apple tree !!!!
The fact that the fruit is good and edible is neither here nor there, the purpose of the fruit is to sustain the seed as it falls to the ground and enables that seed to grow another tree.
Interesting Eh?

A Comment On Elasticity

2005-10-13T07:30:00.000Z

I have found that many churches can only come so far towards operating as the Unity which thay already are in Christ, and that there is an innability to go through the necessary decrease of 'what already is' in place that concretes and cements membership loyalty, meets 'front vision raised 'expectations and tribal unity. (you know what - i know its difficult to steer a ship set on one course - but, were only asking people to come in line with the person of Jesus at the end of the day)

Just a comment really.......... peoples elastic seems to have greatly differing lengths - heck, no one has even asked them to cut it! Is it anywonder that one begins to seek out those in Christ who have no elastic?

So - theres this big social reform group in the UK called Shaftesbury Society (go to their web and view the challenging church campaign - its awesome). They have been given total access to church congregations and organisations in two cities. Having looked at voluntry hours, paid hours etc - they see that the church is doing or has the capacity to do far more that the local government to bring change and reform. However, there is terrible duplicity in resources, also a bend towards preferring to work with non christian agencies over other aspects of church (which i can empathise with - probably less politics). The other issue is they are willing, and good at PLUGGING GAPS.............. in fact so good at time and money going into gap plugging, that rarely to they sit down and plan and strategise towards grass ROOTS reforms which could see those areas go throuhg long term changes across the board. So - wasted resources and in fact, a failure to fulfill some aspects of what it means to be Gods government in a place - setting the standard as it were, having answers in Gods genesis creativity to see change come that others dont.

Good news.....the Anglicans seem to be ahead of the game (i think the US equivellant is episcopal) - they seem to be getting engaged in new ways like no one else is - is this because they realise the oild jar is nearly empty - and are willing to risk pouring out their last meal at the prophets call? Could it be that their PAROCHIAL sense of responsibility means they are halfway to seeing CITY and effectively engaging in market place ministry.....
There are 3 - heck - no - 4 leaders networks in my town - the reformed bunch - clappers - evangelicals - apparantly for the city guys too. I tell you - the TRADS are miles ahead in some stuff - totally screwy in some liberalism and conservative polarisation there, but most of their meetings seemed to be about their engagement in CIVIC responsibility, working with Govt agencies etc - the last one of those i was at - get this...... they were lookign to twin the town with a poor village in Rumania, that instead of partnering other middle class holiday exchange places - they wanted to adopt a backwater place to invest and sow into - to covenant with. WOW WOW and WOW Again............. how redemptive is that..and it was the local Govt who approached the church to make it happen.

So - the thing is - we have the resources - the people - the capacity - but it is being expended elsewhere. Thats even more annoying knowing that!

Sibling Rivalry

2005-10-10T22:11:00.000Z

afriend just reminded me of that phrase - how pre occupied we are with it in our christian family. I often focus on the defecit of spiritula mothers and fathers, i wonder if the issue isnt how much focus we give to having brothers and sisters which stunts our multiplication growth. When we have such singular strong parent figures in the construct, it lends itself to over sensistised awarenss of who we are in the context of our brothers and sister. We beat them over the head with our community ideal of what they should be, how they should be, what they are 'not' to us and perhaps even an awareness of our own failings with our siblings. Trouble is, such and over emphasis on this means we dont grow up - become mothers and fathers and have some spiritual children. i wonder how many of us are surrounded by and preoccupied with the nature and dynamics of our sibling relationships as church.....and all the time fail to have babies. (i tried to make this not sound like incest). Somehow - we need need to have our heads together, partner, and have a conception which results in new children. Oh how i long for us to get 'past' our own needs, our own defecits and at least enable folks who dont know jesus 'yet' to get on the same ladder of introspection - heck - surpass us maybe.
No - really - we need to ensure thatwe dont replace our historical biological dysfunctions of family with a spiritual version with the same dysfunctions and repeating or stuck cycles of innefective relationships which keep us insular and emotionally empty - too empty to ever lieft and stretch out our tentpegs to encompass others.
Sibling rivalry, or deficit, or are your siblings a mirror which reflects something unhelpful tot you concerning you own self. Father - help us grow up - draw us to our feet - to maturity - to a place of parenting spiritual babies of your and our creating.
Amen

Umbilical Flow

2005-10-03T12:54:00.000Z

Had an epiphany this weekend - if thats the right word - dunno, only ever heard captain hook say it.
I found myself saying to a group:
"i had been invited into a large church elders meeting where they said - our people arent growing up and our cells arent working - so i said - Cut The Umbilical, to which the reply came, 'yes but an umbilical is a good thing'. To which i didnt reply( and so wish id thought if this then - but hey - retrospect and al) but thought recently : An umbilical is good as long as you recognise that whatever the child is tethered to exists only as a support to send life giving oxygen/ and nutrients to the child - its not about something coming back - except maybe a few unwanted toxins but i know nothing about biology. Hey - and then the eventual cutting for healthy independance whether you as mum like it or not."

Unity - A Crippling Charismatics Domain

2005-10-03T10:06:00.000Z

I once shared my dreams for unity with a national leader - to which he replied: " I dont get the church unity in a town thing, i just dont see the point of even trying, for a start - the revelation for it probably came through the prophetic, most of the prophets who have been given voice are in the charismatic churches, unity will be centred around them, which means every gathering will be heavy on their culture style and trappings................... to the exclusion of many others - So whats the point of bothering?"

Well - exactly - what is the point if thats the scenario

There was a great picture someone shared this weekend in London, that they saw their city full of little lights, like christmas tree lights, but they didnt all come together to make one big light - instead there was these lightening sparks of acitvity between them, causing a connection between them all across the city.
Its not about getting them together - style and culture are unlikely to be the issues.

Its so sad that we think unity can be expressed in some way through our leaders - that if a pastors network exists then we have unity. Or - that because we have found a successfully mediating way to gather lots of different people into the same place for worship and word - unity exists. Start with centred thinking - end with centred thinking. Isnt that one fruit of pastor teacher foundations in the church - that everything gathers in and keeps 'in' - how they love thier gatherings to be visions that something is working or dissapointments that it is not.

Unity happens when we are no longer doing thinsg which keep us separated. Unity already exist in Christ, We ARE UNITY, we just do things - SINFUL things which separate off Gods unity.

When jenny from the tribe of anglican, and tommy from the tribe of pentecostal and fred from the tribe of households can be in their same workplace, not as representatives of the church or elsewhere, but of the church of wherever they are in Christ name and he is with them, that the kingdom is extending because they are not seeing unity as a yet another meeting to pamper them or survive the work place when they are not 'in church of elsewhere'. Then i believe we are seeing the evidence and hopefully the fruit of something much deeper of 'unity' of 'common union' taking place.

If doctrine is where we start - then our great our HUGE understanding of very little - will have undermined much.

Amen

oh - can i put this qoute in in style and stuff:
"We have a tendency to spiritualise our culture to the point that something uttlerly transition becomes spirtually eternal. We need to not hold onto culture which is in constant transition - but we do need to hold onto spiritual truths which are of enternal consequence"

Know of anywhere, anything or anyone where culture has been spiritualised to the point that something in transition has now become a hinderance, a stumbling block cause our flesh has tried to make it of eternal importance?

Bride of Christ or Bride of Frankenstein?

2005-10-03T09:46:00.000Z

So - bob and mary x move into a new town - fresh from seminary to plant a church (heck, maybe its their 10th church plant but planting what remains to be seen).
They locate a few others - meet in a home, get to 15, split into 2 groups, not everyone is happy with the loss of attachment so they rent a small room in a school for sunday mornings to 'be together' and also have the bonus of new found visibility. Before long, they have had significant transfer growth and are feeling the leadership squeeze. They recognise that they are largely pastoral teacher in gift mix as a couple (which is why theyve done a great job of creating a sheep fold) and begin to pray about who has the other five fold gifts - b4 long they have people in those roles.

Whats wrong with that picture apart from the fact that yet another church has been built on the gifts of the pastor teacher in total contradiction to scripture which says on the foundation of Prophets and Apostles - but hey. No the real issue is we have another 'microcosm' church that thinks God has asked it to reach the town. They cant - actually - cause we can only enter together, cross into together. By default they have formed an isolated unit (but sure they have unity vicariously cause their pastor is in a leaders network - right?) and they continue to pray more gifts into their body, more eyes arms and legs.

Helloooooooooooooooooooo what youve got is NOT a body, it cant possibly be A or Thee body cause the only biblical metaphor of body is in the context that WE in the entire locality are Thee Body.
So im sorry - but what youve got is a limb, at best an oversized limb. At worst youve got a large limb which youve tried to sow a hand onto and maybe graft in an eye - even three, but it probably looks like frankenstiens monster - or frankenstien monstors bride.

You cant have a whole gift mix - you cant have all the limbs - God isnt going to give you the whole picture, there is no way God is going to allow you to re enforce isolation, separatism, elitism or denomo'nationalism'. Or is God really into that?
Then....once we have a fuller picture of Body which in true interdendance we are living out of in our locality - then we realise that body language is universal, that in fact, my town has a distinctive nature that requires help from other towns and cities and they in turn have need of us and then.............. as nations we recognise we have something distinctive to bring to the global table and we ourselves have desperate need to eat there also. (sowing seeds for revival - martin scott)

Are we assisting God, or asking God to assist us in a course we have already set sail on?

I dont want to be Eegore!

Church As Body or MINI ME

2005-09-28T07:51:00.000Z

some good posts and chats in below article

2005-09-23T08:59:00.000Z

How do i get ME into the profile

2005-09-21T17:41:00.000Z

#Hello - this is me

Church On The Way or In The Way?

2005-09-21T17:00:00.000Z

I have to say - the bit i enjoy most in blogging is trying to come up with a headline. SO..... most important bits done.

Well well well well well.....well, why do we spend so much time and focus on getting well? ive picked up on How well is well enough when God uses a broken army in an earlier article, but really....What is taking centre stage in our expending of energy?

Ive seen several community birthings which have in my redactional view (stripping) have not become church at all. Usually it STARTS with a very noble cause such as: Finding Authentic Faith / Becoming The True Bride / Having Real Fellowship etc etc.... the list of well meant causes could go on and im sure you could think of a few - even a few worth embarking on a another journey after?
BUT...................... what ive seen has tended to have the LOST AS AN AFTER THOUGHT, "when we ARRIVE at a point of X then we will have something to offer the lost". Now i really do understand the gesture, but i dont see an arrival point in scripture, i dont see any ellement AT ALL of churchmanship....of being a disciple, whereby once we have crossed a certain 'inner vow or agreed value' line...we can then pursue the lost. In truth, in many settings we never get to this point - i dont htink such a point actually exists anyways. But while we shuffle forwards towards such an undivine human goal - we enflict the sin of not helping people come to faith cause WE or IT isnt ready.
BOTTOM LINE: You cant ever be church - if you are not extending kingdom into the hearts of the lost from the outset. What Jesus centred church can move forwards without the commission in its very dna from the outset? aspiration...a church maketh not - a disciple maketh not. Surely this from the start and on the way pursuit of the lost is what shapes us and makes us eternally rich now? How many saints live daily in hope deferred as the 'gods compassion for the lost breaks our hearts' reality of all of our cores gets surpressed once more.

So what ideals? what line have we consiously or unconsciously put before us that have become a stumbling block to the gospel? how long have you been working towards that place of arrival - how long have the lost that God has placed you in and around got to wait? What in truth would stop you from doing something about that tomorrow - now? and i ask myself the same. hope your cool with joining in the mud of my inner world for a friendly wrestle.

Dont Start With Church

2005-09-16T09:17:00.000Z

Its well worth having a title that draws the eye in dont you think.
Good stuff from Diane in Uk / Michael in Cali. and Casey in Seattle.

"if you want to see kingdom established - dont start with the church"

I heard this recently, and in the context it was absolutely correct in my view. You could see that as we were beginnign to think through what it means to see Gods kingdom come on earth - in and through all things - that we were unable to do it when our paradigm was from the church of 'somewhere else' looking outwards.
I think thats the discipleship test to some degree also - our mental locatedness of being 'in' church or 'as' church will come up with quite differing result.
Im telling you folks - im totally screwed now my brain has downloaded this heaven stuff...... im feeling pretty unhinged in what a friend calls 'A Glorious Meltdown'.

Ok - im going to pick you up - right now - im going to transport you to the city of Prague in Czech Republic. Has an incredible reformer heritage which ended in blood - like many good stories. There are 1% Christians there, of which 1/4 % are evangelical types - the catholics arent much better and the rest state they are atheist.
You and your partner - or best friend are now immediately there for 5 years. What you gonna do?

Find a Church???? or Establish Kingdom as the Church where the Kingdom is absent?
If the latter....what you gonna do, whats your process? How is it likely to unfold?

Personally - theres this great Greek restraunt in a side street - foods really cheap - the under manager is Alexandra - its only been open a week and you can still smell wet paint. You can tell he is under pressure and is pulling out the stops - he called us in off the street with the offer of 'first beer is free' - done deal. He has blessed us materially and in his manner - God blesses those who bless us, I ask if we can pray for him personally and for his business to prosper. Some religious catholic background seems to lead him towards stumbling 'he doesnt know THEEE prayer' - i encourage him that he has to do nothing - just recieve at this stage - yet he throws his hands outwards and says loudly ' Jesus bless me and this business'
I go home tomorrow. But in our game - you are there for 5 years........ i hope you like greek food for some time to come, not too long though, your not looking to stay there - your lookign to see something begin with legs that can walk - not a crutch on you - could be eating home grown czech in a few weeks. Its possible you will make friends with Alexandra - find less busy times where you can drink together and become friends - your are coming to his world - you are 'coming to eat at his house today', the kingdom of God is 'come amongst him and his own'.
Thennnnnnnnnnnn you get to worry about the commission part two - youve gone - and in your going youve engaged - youve made wilful and intentional connections because this is the rest of your life. And i dont care if your 'a ministry gift to the saints to see them do this stuff' there is no 'others do it instead of you and you live out the commission vicariously' in Jesus. But i suspect some have made it so.
So - your helping them through to faith - your baptising from life to death - your instructing in not just the words but the ways of jesus - they are following him towards the lost...................and in following He Is Making Them...whatever they need to be but the bottom line is going to involve fishing for people.

So i guess this is discipleship in some respects. What do you think? Do you need to be uprooted to a strange place to gain perspective - to RE Allign yourself? Can you do it where you are..... cause im getting a real headache here trying to reform my life practices - my rythmns - my diary - even what me and my wife focus towards.
For 10 years ive been trying to fill my diary with Kingdom stuff - but to be honest - theres a fair bit of 'church' stuff in there.
So.... Heres the punchline..... "do i begin to re align my thinking towards making new disciples - or continue to focus mostly on the recovery of those who have been 'in' for a great many years.

I dont think there is such a thing as a discipleship course to be fair - and i run a few. Im sure theres space for deliberate pushes - but a disciple it maketh not - we can smack butts and say 'there you go' now your a disciple. I havent seen a single one reproduce in all these years, not just my stuff either, as i look at what others are providing to 'make disciples' also.
Heck - i could be saying to you MOP UP all those whove been church for years and still not been discipled. Im not - im telling you personally to re produce.

Part of our 'pshyche' has led us to have friends in such a way that we are a hub - and our capacity for new people is quickly gone. Some have this 'friends with everyone for life' thing which needs adjusting too. Many believers are saturated and full with people - could even begin to reach someone new as they are now obligated. Im sure we are borderline 'sinning' in how Christ came to us - and we joined a new family - so christ has found it hard to come into our bilogical one - but we talk about those 'unreached' family members where new meet more regularly with our new one - that just seem a little out of whack? I wonder if this isnt an 'empire issue' tangled into the mix? Empire and Church as separate from life, would lead us to save people away from their contexts to this spirit filled one, So...... does Christ really come to eat with us - and our family - or is he a sharp shooter who picks us off in the street?

If i am to follow some of this stuff through - some of my now friends are going to have to see less of me - some of our 'real community' sacred cows are going to have to die. As long as we see this emerging church journey in centristic ways - our capacity soon shrinks - we now have an ideal to achieve and fragile relationships to maintain - and traditionally - thats as far as this thing gets.
If we are making disciples - we are about the same business - are we likely to cleave to one another less? - im sure this must change our thinking an practices here in some way - - - do you think?

That Christian Word

2005-09-09T15:52:00.000Z

Most Unhelpful Word In My Life????? = "Christian"!! Why? because it seems to have irreversably lost any significant meaning in my view - well.... today at least, ask me again tomorrow.
I have met so many people recently who talk 'Disciples' and 'Followers of Jesus' that its really provoking me. I know a great many Christian, for whom the word Christian is an 'adjective' - it is a description of a point of view, a political allignment, a belief in a system instead of a belief in a divine person, a membership to a 'viewpoint' club, an association to a locatable static people group etc etc etc. I met these guys in Prague recently who make Disciple Making Disciples...end of story.
The help people come to faith, become followers of Jesus, Disciples with a mandate to reproduce.

I could pretty much gaurantee that i could walk into 9 out of 10 Christian (adjective) households and not find a single Disciple (verb) who is making Disciples. See what i mean??? In fact, i could walk into any of the 3 huge congregations in my town, ask everyone to stand to their feet and say "sit down if in the last 10 years you have personally brought someone through to faith - discipled them and seen them discipling others" How many would sit down? A handful maybe, perhaps less once we have gotten through the corporate maze of corporate padding "Wellllllllllllll, i met this guy at work - brought him to a guest service - he 'responded' and has done alpha - even done a discipleship year" to whom i would want to say 'HEY - Get Back On Your Feet'. It really does make you wonder just how many of us, if faced with Jesus saying 'this is what it means to follow me - this is how you have to live and lay down your lives for the lost and each other' just how many would walk away. Heck - i wish he would, at least i would know who im working with.

Wouldnt it be good to know who the disciples are amidst the christians???? if you catch my drift.
Wouldnt it be so good for all the Christians to have to ask if they are disciples, and if there is any other kind of Christian?

HEAR MY CONFESSION OH LORD - I am an unworthy sinner - i am an idol worshipper - i have worshipped at the feet of my own idealism, i have wrongly focused my attention for the last 15 years on trying to get Christians (adjective lord) to become Disciples (yes verb lord) who are making Disciples. Hense, i have seen very few people come to faith in recent years and i myself would have to have stayed standing up in response ot my own questions. Father help me make disciples, who reproduce, father help me be a disciple who reproduces because i have THOROUGHLY LOST MY WAY in this regard. Father continue to rebuke me through your holdy spirit where i have been a butt talker, where i talk like i love the lost, but have deferred my hopes onto others to become Disciples to get the job done. Sorry

Heck................................... and Heck Again................ How many of the people i track with are Disciples? How many of them have gotten stuck on trying to get Gods will done regards the lost through others.....still on that hillside trying to work out if they want to be disciples. Lets do it in a day................. this is what a disciple IS............ this is what it means to Follow Jesus - You GO Where He Is Going................ what? No, you dont want to ? What? Youve got a headache, see you later.
G

back in a jiffy

2005-09-01T17:31:00.000Z

Hi - i'll be back in the flow next week, a few tasty torments to unpack from some time away in Prague with equally wierd... wierd beards like me - except the girls, athough some of those had beardy armpits which is cool outside of the uk, as is "the smell of a real man" as your a real loser if you use anti persperant - thats just for girls...the ones with the hairy pits.
Isnt it good that our cultural differences born out in the flesh does not get in the way of Godly connections. Hoorah. So - like i said - back soon. Im off to Miss England in liverpool now where my 17 year old is representing our town - gonna be a crazy weekend.
g

Freak

2005-08-23T17:54:00.000Z

You know what - as much as i would like to blog today - i dont really have anything to say. I had a quick look at some of the FAT stuff ive been ranting for Jesus about over the months - and i realise that ive probably got enough 'thoughts' to bed down and extrete through my system - hopefully extracting all the relevant bodily essential minerals along the way. I get like that sometimes - i like hearing new stuff - sensing new stuff, but were not talking about art here, its not new colours or shades, almost all of this stuff requires personal reforming otherwise its just more information to nod and glance at. So...at this moment in time..... im trying to fully embody stuff. Hey Ho - till the next time.
Hey if your a Brit - can you text the words VOTE BOURNEMOUTH to 81444 as my luvverly daughter Holly is in the miss england finals and a text vote counts as one judge. B4 Sept 2nd please. Will be televised in Nov ahead of miss world. Fun Eh - im going to Miss England in Liverpool in a few days - crazy, didnt see that one coming.
G Unit Out

Empire In Goal

2005-08-16T15:16:00.000Z

I wonder....If your doing new stuff, what it is you measure yourself...(inner self and your life lived out) by?
And b4 i even get into what i mean - God reminds me of a meeting of town leaders, where everyone does the obligatory "hi im Jon, and im from St Bilbo's" like its actually a living place or entirely separate geography. Anyways... as i dont have a 'thing' by which i can be identified and pigeon holed, i was foolish enough to say " hi - im gaz and im trying something new" to which there were titters of laughter and the comment, 'well of course... were all doing something new garry'...if only that were true. AND why do people of previous generation call you by your full name when they are being condecending?

So - back to my point....OH i do love a rant!!!

Yeah - what do you measure yourself, inner self and spiritual well being /practices by? Is it in proximity to something, a place, a person, a container with the name church? possibly, but what if your done with all that stuff...what are you measuring yourself by? Or even worse - what /who are you looking over your shoulder at.
I only ask as ive been processing it with some guys recently, just how much 'empire' is still our measuring rod in our new journeys. I still find people measuring their worth or success through their proximity to senior pastors in town, still wanting the credentials of a group with a name through which to be references as safe or valid (part of the evangelical alliance / charismatic leaders net - something at the bottom of our letters). Its funny, and sad that i keep finding people in new landscape who's success story is relative to how close they are to 'key' people, 'leaders' of construct, or connection to leaders of 'big' established churches. I dont mean who are you in proximity to - hopefully lots of diverse people and setting, i mean who are you measuring your whole self up against. Whos dissaproval or criticism or cold shoulder would cut you most in church stuff? Why? What do they have on you or over you? Is it something you are yet to be free of - something which has come with you?
Its not a biggy - i just wondered what people measure their worth and progress in proximity to in a earthly sense? I wonder if there is still empire stuff woven into it? Perhaps you measure your worth by your distance from something - thats a whole other can of worms.
G

LETS ALL GET DEAD

2005-08-04T16:02:00.000Z

So - this guy says, (stop me if ive said this already)
"i was in africa, and was at a dinner table sat next to this guy who had been risen from the dead. The dude was totally out there for God, had raised several others from the dead and had such a radical lifestyle. I couldnt help sitting there feeling inadequate and wishing that i had been through a death experience too.......................... but then i paused, and thought... isnt that what we are all meant to have been through, when we died to self to be alive in Christ? And should it effect our living in the same way??""

So - nice story, but it brings me to this qoute:
a quote from Max Planck: "a new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."

Is it possible, that we could see, by the grace of God, and the willingness of a generation to die while still alive, that we need not wait for those resisters of new paradigms of God to literally die before things can be born? Does it really have to boil down to that? Is the Wilderness paradigm how its meant to be - that a generation has to die b4 we are ready to come into our promised land together?
Strong provoking thoughts arent they.
Its really very very sad, but also hopeful in a sick kind of way. You see, i cope with the transition and processing within church - filled as i am - with a knowledge that we are turning the tide, that over many generations to come a reversal might begin to occur. But actually, that has more to do with my coping mechanisms than what God is able to do, heck, what nature is even able to do - it IS possible for things to turn in a generation.

Thoughts?

Dumb Guy's PRAYER verses PRAYER

2005-07-30T16:31:00.000Z

I was tempted to make one of the prayer words smaller than the other as if to give one of them seniority over the other, but that would be misleading and from personal bias.

So - im doing a lot of prayer stuff, a lot of gathering points / connecting points for change seems to be prayer contexts.
This week i realised that while we are all speaking the same language of desiring to see prayer movements occur, and for those prayer movements to create a fresh culture of prayer in Gods saints, that there are several sides to the coin.
I had (being a muppet) taken for granted that the present enthusiasm for people to pray, was about changing things, in particular the church. My reason for this is that i cannot separate Prayer from Reformation. Now of couse there is the 'pray at all time and in all ways' scenario - but to be honest, most folks chat with God about stuff most of the day, so i dont see that we need to create something fresh there. The absense in 'prayer' has been the prayer that puts our lives back into context in Gods purpouses. So for instance> We come before God, He VERY BIG....we very small, so we see ourselves in context of Gods greatness, then we see ourselves as integral to His purposes.....AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS - heck..All Heaven Breaks Loose.

But ive realised that some folks are really into the 'developing a culture of prayer' thing because Prayer Is Good....
So.... poooh! I have begun to see that prayer is seen by some as an end in and of itself - a good discipline for well rounded believers, and not particularly a means or vehicle or agent of change.

When we stop praying what we are praying - We can start Saying what God is Saying.

So Whats He Saying? What needs building - what needs tearing down - what needs to be made subject to the inbreaking of His kingdom on this earth.

mmhhh

Gosh

We Need A New Language

2005-07-30T16:13:00.000Z

I was in a regional leaders setting this week, with folks who are running with stuff in terms of seeing the church as a whole re emerge, so from new community contexts to city leadership seeking to bring a 'one body changing territory' type scenario - really good chats.

One guy has managed to get all the city leaders who are working together - to agree that for 3 weeks every year, their folks are freed up from any 'congregational' obligations, to attend anything which is about establishing kingdom in their work settings. So there are several day set asside such as - healthcare! they bring people in to input, and create space for story sharing and people to find one another.

I would personally take that further (although i appreciate it is a step, but a step that exposes how much congregation usually require our centralised loyalty - loyalty to the alter over calling to life settings). My thought was how useful it could be to get those congregations to not just release people during those three weeks, but that they themselves focus all their resources on WORK AND LIFE SETTINGS.
Personally - im not convinced they could relinquish that much control, for fear that people might actually put more emphasis on life context mission than centralised submission.
BUT - we start with what weve got, and commit to transitioning steps, whilst at the same time not being subject to the long haul yourself and being free to get on with stuff - someone has to, otherwise we dont know what we are working towards, or that is sound and safe.

~OH YEAH - LANGUAGE

People are saying we need a new language for a new landscape - which i totally agree with, for instance, i am trying really hard to say congregation or construct instead of 'church', and keeping church as the word that describes Gods people on much wider macro multiple levels. I no longer see congregation as The Church - at best it is an organised meeting of some tribes who make up the church in a given place. ( we really do need to get Gods glasses back on again in this regard)

BUT - It made me realise that i am also seeking out a language for the OLD.
I see the organised religious institutions as a place which needs to be evangelised - into a fuller revelation of Jesus - but also into a FULLER LIFE which He came to bring (which some / most constructs have become a constraint to).
So i need to be able to speak their langauge and communicate from their reference points - not mine. Its the basis of all cross cultural mission - just never figured we'd be using it within the existing church. Something like that anyways......

Ha!
g unit

ONE SIZE

2005-07-15T20:56:00.000Z

ONE SIZE
fits one

Dialogue V Debate

2005-07-15T15:05:00.000Z

I guess its a post modernity issue again as they seem to be looking to engage and communicate in a way that we are not perhaps used to.
Someone buzzed me an e mail, and said that people tend to get very positional and defensive in their replies to him when he is looking to debate something.
I pointed out that the reason for this might be - that to engage in debate - we already have a position and are both offensive and defensive. So i might like to talk about something with you in a modern way - here is my position on something until you defend your point so well that my position changes - or it becomes re enforced.
Dialogue however is - we come with two differeing opinions, with a desire to learn from the other and perhaps even an openness to walk away with a different worldview or understanding on something - perhaps a point arrived at with a sharing of those two views.

I know this great theologian who is very approachable, he is also aware that theology on one level is still unfolding for us. When you ask 'what do you think about this or that - he says 'what do yuo think?'. So many of us cant wait to give our polished view on something - eager to give someone our developed view point, even if we are right, it is just a layering of our opinion onto another - its does not enable them to seek search learn for themselves.

Gosh - i meet so many people who believes stuff because theyw ere told it was truth. The trouble is, they beleive that until the next persons convincing defence of a position.

I wonder how we coudl communicate differently.
Post modernism ask why we do something a certain way......... modernism replies 'because you should'............. and rather wonderully that just doesnt work any more. Much of emerging church developments come from the post modern ability to question something - looking for what still stands the test of time substance and reality.

Dont Follow Anyone Who Says They Know The Way

2005-07-06T08:27:00.000Z

Dont follow anyone who says they know the way in this hour, as Joshua said 'we have need of God - we have never been this way before' (comment by Dr Sharon Stone 03)

Great comments coming through.

The wonderful thing about this stuff, is that while someone somewhere is going to produce a book which says A New Model Of Church - A Blueprint For Europe.....it wont be. God will not allow us to reproduce 'model and market' syndrome..or ..... actually....He might, so we need to know that isnt Gods Way.
As Michael says...... 'it will be a story of values and principles', and this time it will have to be values outworked, not held hostage to a set of spoken beliefs where the rubber never hits the road.
The Question WAS.. Where do you Go to church
The Question IS... How are you being Church

The question was... where is your place of worship..... the answer is.... Where Isnt?

I offended a lady last wednesday night, never met her before, had a bubbly smile, looked like a pretty safe person to say 'Hello' to. She did say 'hello' but then 'where do you Go to church', i said I dont Go anywhere, i have some people who i am walking out church with. She said 'but what do you do for worship, how do you worship if you dont go to church - why dont you come here - youll like it' (i avoided statements with the words 'need and like and hole and head').
I said, that while i have sung less songs, i have found myself worshipping as a lifestyle constant more. I like singing songs, but its no longer central to my worship.
She said....." i feel really offended - i feel you are telling me not to sing songs, and im not going to listen to you, ill still be singing songs when i die'. YOU KNOW THE LOOK - ITS IN A MONTY PYTHON SKETCH WHERE THEY HIT EACH OTHER ROUND THE FACE WITH A LARGE WET FISH
Good for her!! I said - " you asked me, im dangerous cause i tell you what i think - but dont listen to me, im not telling you to do anything - im a nobody love'.

How nice - A dependant who probably wont get to grow up - lovely lovely person, but only getting to see just 10% of Gods worldview.

So were meeting up for coffee this week!!!...................... Yeah right - what marvel comic do you read!

Yeah......... So its great. God is getting to build church with us.

FAMILY????
I still think it all boils down to principles of biological family, as there is meant to be 'God Revealed' through that. Families have marriages to one another, they produce children, they get 'grown' , the proof of the pudding... is when they have children of their own, we take a less central role, get to visit, play a part, but less hands on...... and it ALL Spreads Wonderfully Sideways.............. ALSO - IT IS TOTALLY CULTURALLY RELEVANT EVERY TIME, IT IS ALWAYS A NEW SKIN UNTO EACH GENERATION, ACROSS TRIBES AND CULTURES.

FORERUNNERS + SCOUTS + BARDS

2005-06-29T07:09:00.000Z

Just some stuff that is around at present which i thought i would download in light of comments which have been exhilarating.
Some of the comments are around grace / need of the spirit / hearing God and running / running as many hear but do not run.

When i began this present journey of coming out of congregational leadership and going to ground, i wanted to ensure that i wasnt adding to dysfunction, creating something i or another generation woudl be repenting for, so really had to check my spirit - and seek counsel.
So i shared my heart with a few seasoned folks and this came back:
"What your talkign about seems to be what prophetic folks and others are hearing. The trouble is, very few are responding to what they are hearing but have become observers of others, waitng for something to happen or afraid to risk. Its important that someone seeks to establish what they are seeing in this new landscape, there will come a time when the churhc as a whole will ask such questions and they need to be able to see ' a parable in the land'.

I think there is an element of scouts, in that some are certainly hearing this stuff ahead of others - and have a duty to God to come in line with what they are hearing (if one know what he must do but does not do it - then for him this is sin). In part they are forerunners, They Are Not Experimenting, int he sense that they have gone to a new land as day trippers, They Have Cut The Bungee And Jumped, They Have Burned Their Bridges In Conviction To Go Into The New - There Is No Old To Return To If It Doesnt Work Out.
But We Need Relationship To The Old Skins (as ive said before - we arent told to shove old wine in new skins - so the old has a use for the old in one respect - both skins - both are wine((( having said that - i dont think the existing contexts of church should have EVER occurred and at one level are just simply unbiblical - extrabibilical - scripture through constantionian eyes)) ...)
Great to run with the new - someone needs to - it needs relationship to the rest of the body in a scouting way to say HEY GOD WAS HERE ALL THE TIME - HE IS IN US AND THROUGH ALL THINGS so COME - "what? Is It Safe? Heck NO ITS NOT SAFE - BUT ITS GOOD" (aslan)

Sorry - waffling a bit - need my first coffee of the day and some shreddies (wheaty bites).

So what am i saying....... You can observe Developments, to see if its safe, but A) your in deep trouble if you were asked to run but your just watching / observing and as some i have met....being 'commentators on something that at one level needs objectivity but to really BE THE CHURCH as Christ intended - Is Utterly Subjective...so you 'CANT' watch.
B) .............. What the heck is B? dunno - fill the space yourself.

Oh - I did say Bards................ We need to know where we have come from, we need to take responsibility for where we have been - every mistake has a face - heaven weeps over lost saints etc........... to ever be able to Go where we need to Go and not just repeat it all over again.
Bards - Oral Tradition........................... we need people to tell us who we are? i think many of us have fogotten. I think when we see ourselves and out various contexts within the fulness of history - the diversity of the saints - how the FRINGE always seems to become the mainstream.... i think we will be less judging . more gracious. more willing to do more that Adjust and Try Experiments with limited risk - and limited outcome.
Thank you Wesley that when you were outcast - you preached from your fathers grave.
Thank You Evan Roberts for working with teams of Women to reach the hearts of Broken men
Thank You Elijah for your honesty, willingness to be weak even in the shadow of breakthrough, to work with a generation - and when it was time - to pass on your mantel.
Thank you old ladies in the Hebridies - Who just prayed and saw 75% of that revival come to Christ - not having known his name - not having entered a church - but through the conviction of the Spririt.
Thank You Father that You Have No Box - Except The Limitation Of Our Minds And Fears.

Some of us need to Die For Christs Gain all over again. Some of us are eating off a Pizza Hut Plate - Where Weve Eaten Some Juicy Bits - The Crust Is Adding Up And There Is No Space For Fresh Bits.... When All We Need To Do Is Ask For Another Plate.

Why is it when someone 'often' says ' Here Guys - Here's a blank sheet of paper - how would you do it differently - we think its just a game - and dont think we can do that - or at least work towards that?

Ok - Im off my horse now in this comment............ If we are unable to steer a big ship of histories construction, which some darned fool said - here, your steering this now - and for the rest of your life (as you dream of retirement or a second call). We need to be willing to let people use the life boats...whatever those life boats 'are' for them........ let them discover some islands in search of life and peoples. Let us help them cast off, untie the rope and wish them well. IF we cannot walk differently or fully ourselves - lets at least help some folks to do so - so that they might become those parables to the rest of us - lets bless them with as much provision as their little boats will carry. And if they screw up? we can either send more boats or say - SEE, I TOLD YOU IT WASNT SAFE and it wasnt good - come back to the new temple where God is? (or at least feels obliged to visit between the hours of 10 and 12 on a sunday)

Dang It - being aware of old lenses in our glasses - i need to point out that for some reading this - i have just re enforced the centre - by making them think we are meant to have a ship. Heck - scuttle the ship - get everyone to the lifeboats. Follow the fella walking on the water.

I like this qoute
"Lets fish - but stuff whos boat is who's - just get them to the shore"
G Man

Do It MY Way - Build Up What I'M In

2005-06-26T10:20:00.000Z

I liked this question from a e mail is sent someone today - who is a wonderful woman of God by the way.

Hows it going with the rising - and probably either lost or present (by now) generation? It used to be 40 years - but it seems more like 5 these days, where a whole new wave of potential world changers comes and goes, and weve grabbed them - given them life and let them run, grabbed them assimilated them in and taken their lives and tied their feet together, or we just went and missed them all together.

mmmmh in addition to that e comment, i found this old qoute from Martin Scott - father to a generation of forerunners: Its from a recording of his speaking at the church of Evan Roberts the great revivalist in Wales.
"Thats why - when anybody prophecies "There Is A Youth Movement Coming ", when i hear older people saying..... 'thats great, but what about a word for us?' This is the word for them, ' There Is A Youth Movement Coming' - no no martin, what about a word for us, and the word for them is "THERE IS A YOUTH MOVEMENT COMING" -why? because this isnt a word for youth...........its a word for me, its a signal 'Martin - will you pour yourself into that which is coming or will you not. Or will you squeeze the life out of it and say - '''' your gonna have to do it MY way, and you going to have to build up what I'M in.''''' Thats why i will take any stick whatsoever to see this thing get birthed for the sake of that which is coming....... that is going to shake this nation!

Martin Scott is the kind of bloke youd carry a sheildn and wield a sword for, because the world is a better place with him in it, and will continue to be effected long after he is not in it.

new qoute

2005-06-15T15:46:00.000Z

People want to build with bricks - all the same, straight edges that make straight walls and its all tidy. God calls us to build with stones, which is much harder. Heck - he asks us to build the kingdom of God with LIVING stones - fancy a try at that? Not only are they living - they are constantly in the process of change and movement. (heidi plympton - southwest emerge)

It works wonders for your control issues, always looks like a mess to you and glorious to God.

"Resistance Is Futile" borg

2005-06-15T15:29:00.000Z

A friend of mine (an absolute reformer through and through) said to me last week, "ive been in resistance now for 12 years - resistant to this and that - but ive found that resistance only gets you so far, resistance creates space, that someone has to occupy" (something like that - you can shape it a bit and make it your own like i have)

So....... in resisting stuff that is increasing dead to us, in resisting flesh, in resisting empire, in resisting repetition.................we creat a space to do something, be something better, hopefully purer, hopefully real and capable of being a tranfroming force.

Forgive me if im repeating myself, but i dont believe this next bit:
"where yor feet tread - that ground is yours to take" yes, but not if we are just passing through, cause it will belong equally to whoever comes next. Thats why hit and miss evangelism or projects or those 'service' and community works things are really not going to cut it.
God calls us to Go - to enter in - and to establish..... Plant a Church? NO - ESTABLISH KINGDOM realities.

What are we entering into? anywhere the kingdom of God is not established and fruit needing to be the evidence of a tide that is turning at the hands of Gods people.

Finally - and this is splitting hairs as i dont believe in church planting ( 'construct imposition' )- but i heard recently ......... "there is also no biblical context for church planting, especilly where church already is."
In my town centre, there are 6 churches over 100 years old, all with tall spires and all in close proximity to the other, in some cases, less than a 100 metres bewteen them. It dawned on me - that 100 years ago my town was in its infancy, very few buildings, mostly residential, and here were these 6 huge buildings causing a very real offence to God - for all to see. Planting what we used to see as 'taking ground' by owning something in the flesh, and planting church buildings - but simply planting division and restraint to unity. And The Ground Bleeds.

Sheepyness

2005-06-14T00:23:00.000Z

Why Do Church Leaders Expend So Much Energy On Creating A Strong Well Defined SHEEP FOLD with Inhouse Entertainments Systems - When Sheep Live Out Most Of Their Lives IN A FIELD??

Being Post Cat Food - Im Risking Here

2005-06-12T10:48:00.000Z

Ok - im now post cat food crisis, and am now driven yet again by where i am going, and so, i have remembered what i was gonna say.
Ok... THIS IS VERY CONTROVERSIAL....i am by nature, generally a 'mediating' person, i am a bridge between where we have been and where we are going, i am for the whole church, the church in transition and the church transitioning through.

So..... this is something God has provoked me with BECAUSE AN ADJUSTMENT IS REQUIRED IN THIS SEASON.

I was in a setting where two people really shocked me (and i needed shocking). They said, No - The Church As We Have Know It Is Utter Poison - Something that gives life in part - is not life at all, something that gives promises of helpign you to run then holds you in is utterly utterly evil and ungodly - there IS NO MIDDLE GROUND, You Cannot Be Both And Be Called Church.

Another said, No, its not ok to leave people in that, we need to see it for what it is, ITS A PUSHER, ITS A DEALER OF DEATH, You would not allow someone you love who is going through rehab for heroin addiction to go back to their dealer.

I do feel, however controversial - that there is something truly prophetic in this, i think its a cry of desperation and clarity from Gods heart more than it is a black and white statement. I have wrestled with this a lot, i can tell you - it has not sat well with me at all, but that doesnt mean its not God.

So here is what has come out of that for me, as a lover of all things the body:

I have spent a long time finding 'mediating' language for the mainstream church to understannd that we are 'for' the body, and fully alive in christ - believign the same things and having transitioned into another way of being churhc for FULLNESS OF LIFE and for MISSION.

I have sought to justify - i have sought to gain approval and acceptance so we can continue to have open doors of communication. Whilst i still value that and operate like that to some degree, THERE IS A TIME COMING WHEN WE CEASE TO SAY - "HEY WE ARE CHURCH JUST LIKE YOU - PLEASE ACCEPT US", and instead begin to make declarations with apostolic unction and authority WE ARE CHURCH, BUT WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU, because we find a place of honesty and an ability to say.....much of what you are doing is counter productive and a constraint to the saints comign to fullness in all of life............ some of it is counter kingdom folks, and as such is ANTI CHRISTIAN.

Now, im sure you will appreciate, i have said that to no-one as yet, but it has taken me off the back foot where there has been seeking of acceptance in a wrong way. You know what - thats just bowing to Empire, end of story, if there is a percieved someone 'above us' with 'more rights and more rightness' than us - its just empire and control by another name.......... and that means comign under witchcraft. Wherever we seek to craft the future of others to our own will - thats witchcraft.

See - so hot it burns your hands and causes terrible discomfort - but search your hearts. I know it sounds spooky - but are my hands clean of dealing death and crafting peoples future with send agenda - or even to maintain our organisats personnel and gift needs. how many businessmen have i valued on the basis of tithe and being able to do the pa desk, and not invested intot heir life setting calling as a ministry gift enbaling them to come to fullness in works of service, not works in my sunday service....or cell....or anythign else centred in need of hands.

Dang It

2005-06-12T10:31:00.000Z

My wife asked me if i fed the cats last night, and if i wouldnt mind not putting the wet meat and the dry biscuits on the same plate as its a pain in the butt to clean the next day.

and........ now ive forgotten what i was gonna write. Isnt that just real life, so please, in the absense of divine wisdom about how not to repeat the past, please consider your wife or even your mother, and ask yourself if you have any areas of apathy which make things difficult to bear on a sunday morning. And Repent and be conformed more fully into His likeness.
God, help me to honour my wife by showing more consideration for how i feed the cats - who are tuppence and 'mr' molly (mr molly as the kids had gotten used to the name molly, then we discovered she owned a body part little girls arent meant to have - yes we have the worlds first trans gender cat)
sorry - will ask god to remind me what it was.

POST REBELLION

2005-06-12T10:08:00.000Z

Thanks Jim Thwaites for the line' we have to get post rebellion - where we are driven by what we are moving towards - not what we are moving away from'. I have to say this is an incredibly important issue if we are to avoid repetition and pocess filters and discernment which enable us not to ressurrect the dead which God wants to stay dead.
Post Rebellion? sounds a bit harsh............. but what moves us on into new things is often a sense of discontent, inner or external crisis, all of which we need not have guilt over as many times these are God permissioned crisis - intended to move us on. BUT it does mean we move away at times like its a divorce, and in divorce what helps us cope with the trauma and complicated feelings is an over emphasis on what was wrong / dysfunctional / the other / or guilt around self.
Most of these feelings mean we spend a considerable amount of time / years even, looking over our shoulder.

What happens next is very simple, we birth something which is seasoned by all of those things, and often in the very early stages of our 'where to next' with self and often with those new builder types - we define ourselves by 'WHAT WE ARE NOT ANY LONGER' - not what we desire in Christ to become. In this is the seeds of Separatism, the stain of Elistism and superiority (for context - look at how we brits birthed church in america, and ask yourselves if this has any effect on the condition and dna of the church there today?
When we sit and define ourselves, our frame of reference is what we have been in, thats ok and necessary, but it can condition us to spent too much time on developing THE NEW 'WE', and before long there is a 'THEY' and we repeat the cycle of being a detached limb, a self invoked curse, and we struggle to ever stand as a biblical body in a place. In where we are going as church, some of what is rising up from the ground, we have to see this nailed, or we will remain microcosm church where there is no biblical reference point (Family cannot thrive asside from living tranference with tribe, tribe cannot truly embody...body... asside from its dual identity as Isreal - for an ot metaphor - then we can at least draw from that context.....we can only enter the land together, which sounds nice).
Oh, now ive said family cannot live without connectivity with tribe, some reading this will have seen that as meaning, new things cannot have life without the permission or covering of the hierachy in the construct - thats not what i mean, that stuff needs to die, its just control by another name....HEY, MANY TIMES WHEN I HEAR THE WORD SUBMISSION, THEY SPELL IT ....S - L - A -V -E -R - Y. submit to one another out of right relationship, if there is no genuine mutual life laying down loving relationship, where we prefer other over self, there is no context for biblical submission..... as unto christ /as christ loved the church....so being for others, even unto death.

It takes five minutes to one week, to sow the seeds of the next institution into a new move of God. usually in our first team meeting and that frightening oh so obligatory mission statement we feel we have to produce...... often to recruit transfer growth (albeit unconsciously - at the end of the day, non believers dont really give a rats arse about many of the defining things you spend time over - heck, they walk past a hundred of your buildings every week without so much as a sideways glance.)

GOOD HEALTH?
The body is the body, we cannot disregard or dishonour old wineskins from our new wine skin standpoint, we have to get deep inside us that whatever the skin is, WE ARE ALL WINE.

see next blog for a provoking paradigm shift for new landscape folks.

COMMENT

2005-06-09T12:53:00.000Z

To Anyone in my mini me fan base !!! Anything you want me to comment on, unpack further. Do this on site in comments or to chat - gaz.drum@ntlworld.com. If its a moan, can you do that in comments, if its to productively walk u can e mail. If you e mail me and rant - i will will post it on site and say rude things about your ugly wife and yo mamma.
G

Qoute of the Moment

2005-06-09T12:31:00.000Z

I will plagerise this to protect the innocent (not drop them in the crap as this was very contextual and deeply personal)

For Gods Sake........................... Deal with this spirit of Comparison............... It Is Not A Godly Measuring Rod AT ALLLLLL

" Some of the guys in town would have a real problem with what we do in our church"
" We have dealt with so much old tradition and have really moved on"
" We are so much less legalistic and religious than most of the guys out there"

Thank you Baz Gascoine in Sheffield for your willingness to get in a prophetic guy who's been drunk in the spirit for many years (literally - has a doctors letter so he can fly on planes) come into your community every year, to make people feel really really uncomfortable and to take the temperature of how Religious youve become.

Its not how religious or legalistic you were, its how much you still are. Comparision to others is a wall of our own self defeat to hide behind
, a wall which seals our end. What is it that we need to do to say to God, How religious are we STILL? Is there really any point of arrival in any of this stuff that God is seeking to work through with us so he can effectively wrok through us.

I shall now go and have lunch feeling ive had a good bloggin moment. Thank you readers for spurring me on to keep downloading and goign through my own DETOX.

MORE ON JOHHNY B SYNDROME

2005-06-09T12:15:00.000Z

As i was saying - a john the baptist mentality. I think good fella Martin Scott embodies it well in this reference to present and past generations of the body, in respect of the present and rising younger generation: "MAKE OUR CIELING... YOUR FLOOR". We need somewhere te be embodying a spirit of willingness to see others take this thing called kingdom..further. Its important to state to state firmly to all generations - 'dont you bloody well dare give up', this is not a handover - we are not looking for a decapitation, thats not where the analogy goes in my opinion, we are lookign to partner into the future together, perhaps in ways that will frighten us very much. Oh.... On Decapitation ...... Jesus is the Head, He Will Build The Church - so all other heads MUST roll if they have gotten int he way of this. One prophetic lass said regards a recent moon eclipse of the sun, that it was rather like the Church (in dysfucntion and wrong emphasis) having eclipsed the Son.
We are in need of embracing Gods death, where something stinks and needs it, but also where somethings actually work, thats part of the key issue here, we are used to either seeing somethign through to death, we are used to laying down something that looks like death is innevitable, but we are not good at PUTTING DO DEATH something that appears to be good and healthy, but needs Gods death................. Cause this leads to a resurrection life. So HEY CHURCH - get your molars aroudn that fatboy and chew............ Some of what you think is good and works needs to die, needs to decrease lest it become in the way of What God Is Trying To Do in these days, and indeed risks eclipsing the Son. (thanks bruce mounsey ywam kiwi for those death reference points delivered brutally in one of my old church setttings - god bless you you ginger fella)

CUMMON, yeah, lets eat that one, lets put it on a spit and roast it in our heads, FATHER GOD - HAVE WE SOMETHING THAT APPEARS ALIVE BUT NEEDS TO BE PUT TO DEATH LEST IT BE IN THE WAY - OH HEAVEN HELP US

Prepare the bride for the groom - build a highway constanlty so something Huge of God can land, build a path in the wastelands of our own making. So sorry God - forgive us, give us another chance and the older generation a second breath to push again.

We Have Never Seen What Is Coming

2005-06-07T12:08:00.000Z

The church in my view needs to step into a John The Baptist season, where what it has known or feels it has achieved as church, finds a willingness to decrease because of what is coming.
More on that later. But - Weve Never Seen What Is Coming.

CHURCHLESS IN SEATTLE

2005-06-07T11:33:00.000Z

Ok, so, here goes:
Just came back from spending some time with emerging friends in Washington State, Casey and Andrea Cerratani in Seattle and Eric And LeeElla Blauer over in Spokane 6 hours east.I say emerging friends as they are fully immersed in Gods emerging church stuff but we have really only met for an hour hear or there and mostly had an e mail church relationship, which has been really valid and useful to us.

Casey moved from a fat salaried job into seattle cause its such a high non christian population, opposite of the bible belt really and not unlikle the UK ratio climate, and the climate - poured most days. Heres my fave qoute from there...., or a variation on a theme: "80% of the people in Seattle are unchurched, it is my profound hope that in 10 years time, 80% of them will still be unchurched"
So - I liked that immensely because what Casey was saying was he wants to see a harvest of people who find Jesus and participate fully in his kingdom, but not become removed into the sub culture of the church. I would add to that, i would like to see some of the 18 to 20 % of churched people in seattle becoming unchurched as well.
Seattle is full of hope, cause anything goes, which means the church does not have a monopoly or stranglehold on people trying to work out new skin for the church there. Excellllllllllant!.
I got to share that story when in Spokane at a Youth Church conference called blaze, but added another little bit from a ywam guy called steve sullivan who i admire greatly. He once sat with me and said with real facial expression(the bits not obscured by the beard of doom) and said, "Gaz, i was with some guys recently who have seen a hundred youth saved in just a few months.....pauses........... but after only a year, almost all of them are back in the world.......... long pause......... Hallelujah, thats where they are meant to be.
Are you catching my drift here? I am really not praying for revival, i i think the people around me in the prayer movement stuff could prehaps think i should be, but i am probably not alone in thinking we are not At All READY For REVIVAL. What is the point of hurling a whole bunch of people into centralised safe till heaven church to only save them into new bondages, and a version of freedom?
We have lost revival fruit b4, its old stuff now but still relevant to point out that if 2000, made a response to the Billy crusades in England in the 50's, a year later less than 200 could be found still in a church, and heck, what does that mean, is that ,meant to say we succeeded with 200 or have held them in a pen away from life?
Gerald Coates once said, "If you can live without revival - you probably will" - so there is a tension there, but im not ready to see dysfunction reproduced or heck - definately not about to see the church in general think its no longer in need of reformation cause new people have come through the door........... I just think we need to know the seasons, and perhaps even an order to things -im my small mind anyways.
So.......Lets pray that Seattle see's an incredible breakthrough of people saved into the kingdom and remaining unchurched in terms of those negatives, and perhaps even pray for a breakout to occur so we see an increase in the churched becoming less churched and more kingdom.I met many there who are becoming exactly that - wonderful people seeing a second light in a second darkness.

OooErrr Missus

COMING SOON to a blog near you

2005-06-07T09:43:00.000Z

Ok, people are getting on my case and i am in fear of blog rejection if i dont write somethign worth visting for soon.
So..... Coming later this week.
Keeping the Unchurched (and how not to ever have those two words in the same sentence)
Also - some stuff from a recent trip to hang with some guys in Seattle and Spokane Washington.
over and not out
gaz

Family Christmas? Shmishmass

2005-04-12T15:34:00.000Z

It has been an often used comment - that 'family church' is a little like Christmas, its great when it happens, but you wouldnt want to do christmas every week.
A fair comment, but it eludes to the notion that we are only family when we are in the same space and time, or crammed into the same front room around the door you were going to throw away last year but means the 2 new grand kinds manage not to evict grandma to the sofa with a dinner tray and bib.
In congregational circles, i often hear people saying how inportant the sunday meeting is, to ensure that we are all 'together' as family. This in turn leads me to an article in the Evangelical Alliance mag that i read today in the loo. It was about how we can give space to generationally specific church gatherings - for example - youth church, but it is not an end in itself, because we still need to be together, to fulfill a biblical picture of the Christian family.....Durrr!

But that implies some HUUUUUUGE pressupostions (had to try and spell that and not say suppository), that our congregation centre mindset, is correct and the 'Higher Ground' of being together.
In all honesty, you can be 10 or 300 together in a room across the generational span, and NOT be together at all, other than in this visual, polite and probably genuinely aspired way (((( In Fact!!!! just today - a lady who has done some research in what one would deem to be 'healthy' congregation - told me that a repeating theme is Loneliness. Also - that a church in another town has a very good model of a 'buddy system' to address some of this. Great - i like that, but doesnt it say - even a little - that the family meeting - produces a 'feeling of well being' that doesnt last the week for some/ many - where does little jimmy visit old granny in her nursing home confines))))
I know many churches where this is held aloft, but outside of that hours meeting once a week, there may be very little generational cross over, or LIFEBLOOD that jesus would recognise as embodying......................well......................The Body i guess. You know, that connection to life laying down loving. At best (and thank god they do this) its the pastors wife and five of the least physically impaired of the oldies, who facilitate a get together or luncheon mid week. Im not nocking that at all - long may it continue. But what the heck is this CHRISTIAN FAMILY THING that we are meant to embody, cause it sure as heck isnt about an hour in the same time and space each week, any more than its embodied as bioligical family in my front room once a year. If we hold this up as a moral virtue - How is it really meant to be expressed? I think we settle for something very very low grade indeed if we can smile at the new baby and grandma weatherwax on sunday and feel we are doing something rich and profound.

Spilled Wine / Spewed Wine - in response to chris stone's Wasted

2005-03-11T17:04:00.000Z

Chris's blog -see link, has an article about a dream where he saw blood being spilled out of churches

Totally - people are indeed being spilled out but what a mess - blood all over them - some it belongs to jesus - some of it belongs to them as often a critical point of woundedness is what it takes to relocate them back into life - but at what cost. I think that the people leaving the church are spilled wine - thats what happens when you put new wine into old skins - but this is different - these people are more spewed that spilled because the tough old skin refuses to split - indeed it is heel bent on not rupturing at all (strongly believing it has flexibilty to change through adjustment and the that the box has corners as yet un explored?)- so - people are either spewing or spilling, the spilling ones are those who have managed to not loose sight of their 'newness' the unique and distinctive things in them that have refused to be commodifeid or their raw energy watered (also called not coming under authority - also referred to as being unwiiling to submit to leadership - submission at times spelt s l a v e r y). What make me puke - is the energy that God must employ to help them in their recovery and detox - to be fully up and running again - and its here that i ask God to pour out his grace and healing most. My friend Shannon has a deep passion to see the church as a whole healed and restored as do i, but like jesus said to people who had gotten used to their illness as they stood by the pool in hope of a shimmer and fighting their way into the blessing of God "do you want to be healed"......... and thats to the people who knew they had a sickness!!!

Church - Through A Window Dimly

2005-03-10T10:44:00.000Z

March for Jesus - Do you remember that? Graham Kendrick - bless his cotton socks - what a good idea that was - even went global didnt it? But was that the full picture or was it us running fully with the partial glimpse that God has given us of the way ahead? I wonder - several years on, was it about the church being visible on the streets, and as such, it being a metaphor of or even literal steps towards taking ground and spiritual warfare. OR was it that God was calling us back to creation, back to the work and life spheres as visible church in and through all things - and we with our centred thinking, thought of it as a chance to ve visible - when in fact unless you have our church diary we are pretty hard to find - locate.

Good old Spring Harvest - someone once said "what does the church in England look like" and someone else replied 'Like Spring Harvest' which was and is and is to come a gathering annually at multiple holiday parks across britain for worship and teaching - some dynamic small and large gatherings which gave one a tiny glimpse of heavens unity and diversity. BUT to stay there, does it not highlight the unreality of the situation that most of us return to - detached, fragmented, dislocated, multiple microcosm church? Is such a thing a glimpse of the fuller picture that needs to permeate us as a whole - not as an annual expression?

In my own setting - i see it all the time - people seeing dimly through a window, a partial glimpse of the future which in turn they throw everything at as though they have seen it all.
Often its by stages - "this is it" is actually only a step towards the fuller picture - for instance, larger churches which dont really need anyone locally, usually becuase they have a life line into a national stream.......are beginning to see 'city' and 'unity' with partial vision (they also think they are meant to have their own primary five fold ministries - or 4 fold cause they are scared of apostolic which would probably blow them up and rightly so).
And so - suddenly we are invited to 'several separate parties' - churches with great resources now wanting to offer their wares to the whole church in an area, with no need of partnering at all. Also - their gift is well........... not mixed, but im not taking away their need to be distinctive.
Its interesting that, by default or design - that people who are post congregation (centralisation of organisation), have unity and city far more in their sights, thier lives outworked accordingly........ perhaps we simply cannot serve two masters.

March for Jesus - perhaps it was meant to be a walk back into life and work as the church of there, not the church of elsewhere.
Spring Harvest - perhaps a glimpse of how church can work differently in the day to day in our localities - not national one offs - heck, thats relatively easy by comparison and such a cop out if you stay with that alone.
Sorry if this is very english with its contexts but i am sure you have comparable things going on.

Oh - While im at it - I was speaking at ywam Lausanne Switzerland some years back, A german guy came up and asked " are you involved in the youth awakening in England" - i wondered if he meant the grass roots movement of missional church setting to reach into the lost generation, but no - " I mean Soul Survivor - Thats a real revival isnt it"?
Sorry - i had to be honest " No - Its a Funeral! - I cant even bring myself to go, all i would see is 7 out of 10 people wearing black (in spirit) cause they wont be flowing with the kingdom in five years time. Soul survivor is a wonderful life jacket which gives young christians the illusion that the church has significantly changed - it hasnt - it just gives you a shot that makes you feel better and helps you cope with being bakc at base camp for another year - before you work you way to the back seats and finally to university where you thoroughly relish the space from your biological family and christian family(heck - theres a fair likelyhood that 10% of students are happy clappers -but its only a handful that participate in campus christian stuff) - ahhhhhh relief / independance of a sort -sadly from God along the way too.
600 youth leaving church each week - they cant all be prodigals or lost sheep - are they spilled wine? Thats another issue for another day.
(oh and soul in the city........ if i meet another church leader in one of those cities who says "it was a pain in the arse and an impositon upon churches who cant see it through after its over - cause they werent capable /together before the invasion either............. but the kids - oh the kids - they were great".............................. ill eat my hat)

WHAT Is Emerging Anyway

2005-02-21T16:39:00.000Z

I keep getting final year bible students wanting to do disserations on Emerging Church. Hopefully its because of how i am living and not that i look like a hippy new ager and by default a good candidate for non conformity.
The first thing i have to get over (before the ensuing onslaught of new community questions tackles me to the ground and rubs my face in the mud) is that The Whole Church is Emerging, If it has ears to hear what God is asking of it in this season..................... flipping long season.
For instance, some emerging issues of the church re emerging are in relation to: Where is the rising Generation? What Happened to the last one (which worked its way to the back of your church and deeper into the pigeon holes of 'lost sheep and prodigal sons')? What happened to Gender Marginalisation (women second class) And all those other Whats. Oh, and Extending kingdom in work place - you know the one, the one where the construct values you on the basis that you can do PA, and is very grateful that your successful business tithe in part salaries the new kids worker. Catch My Drift?
So - EMERGING CHURCH ISSSSSSSSS NOTTTTT about another group of people leaving the inherited church in the hope of finding fuller life and purpose (although thats one aspect of whats happening)..Its about whatever God is asking of you and your guys next, on the road to transformation and re engaging - yes re engaging with life and the works spheres. It may be something measured, it may be and exploration of partnering with other tribes in your city so we dont duplicate works and waste resources. It may be that you realise that Cell 'wasnt it' as the publicity more than implied, but was a wake up call on our walk back into meaningful LIFE LAYING DOWN RELATIONSHIPS - ........ aha, just about the time that you realise you have to totally deconstruct...What? . . . the CONSTRUCT, because every step you take towards re engaging with life SMELLS OF AND IS LIMITED BY CONSTRUCT THINKING and you need to detox to be of much use at all.
He breathes out!

A City Sized Soundbite

2005-02-20T18:17:00.000Z

The good thing about what God is doing in shaking the walls of church down, is that we can see one another across the city. The good thing about what God is doing in these days is it enables me to agree with some thinkers - that church is both big and small - but not in the least bit cell and congregation - instead its back to families and city. By Families i mean grass roots bunches of people around natural family or created family, more around whats naturally bubbling up than what we can contrive. By City i mean, Gods view of church as geographical (see pauls letters to territorial 1 church or the letters to the angels of the city church in revs).

So.. im having to work in two direction these days - back into high risk relationships (or as my friend carl in orlando says - 'invasive community, friendships that are not solely on your terms'), but also finding interdependancy upon the other limbs in our locality - which means i have to work hard NOT to re create MICROCOSM church where we have independance and no need of others (which just means we are 2 dimensional and with real defecits at the end of the day - so why do it?)

The biggest trouble isnt the grass roots relationships, although that does come at a price, its actually the city, its actually making the choice to no longer work against unity. We dont have to work to be unified as church in our locality, we just need to stop doing the things that separate us off from one another. Good that isnt it? You cant make Gods unity work with the church, you just have to stop being dorks and stop trying to keep your stuff together and around your distinct vision. By this i mean, we have distinct gifts as tribes and groups that God has formed, which the whole needs from me/ us, and the toughest bit - seeing we have need of them and are richer for the trying.
'So What' - I Say to the Fella who tells me that ' im fightened to let go of MY church incase it falls apart' to which i have to say "if it falls apart - it was never together"

Im ranting - so ill stop with this city tasty morsel.............. "What God Is Doing In Terms of Unity, Is Not Icing To Your Existing Church Cake........... It Is The Absent Ingredient That Demands The Cake Get Re Baked "

World View V Resources

2005-02-20T14:23:00.000Z

The other day i was helping with a churches intership training, it was part of a series on Leadership, integrity, ability and all that kind of stuff. The guys gave really good 10 minutes talks on:A) What they liked or valued about leaders - B) If they could change anything about their church, what would it be.

I had a short slot at the end to pick up the loose threads. The primary loose thread appeared to be, if they view church in those two flows (from previous article) that a wrong flow would dictate how they would communicate, what they would communicate, what they would lead the next generation towards. All of them believed that church should flow outwards, and that our ecclesiology (church infrastructure) should be dicatated by and formed through our Missiology (what we are here to do). In reality, most had never thought of this, were beginning to think of this or were so 'INHERITED CHURCH' in their thinking, didnt realise there was anythign to think about. In reality - their leadership development and use of time was at this stage, fairly well orientated to a Wrong Flow model of church. As such, it was likely that this Inherited thinking would re enforce things to the next generation.
Funnily, after the session was over, i was in their church office being showed various types of welcome pack model, Lots of leaflets about programmes, values and mission statement...... mission statements that marginalise mission to a seminary call or the mission field of elsewhere in the world, like the disciples were on hold in Jerusalem and skipped to Judea.
I know the church has been there for around 90 years, so i thought i would go lightly, by asking, " is it the mission of the church, to see people undergoing personal transformation - leading to societal transformation?" 'Yes', "So, over the last 10 years, how has the former significantly begun to effect the latter, what of your communication, your training, your money and resources are flowing towards the Transforming of the City? - Oh, and havent you been trying this for 90 years? to what end?"

I wonder where that next generation will take things if they have the capacity to be formed and provoked to once again, have church as the agent of the coming kingdom, and i wonder if their leadership can lead us back into life? We are not judged by what we do not know - but by the choices we make once God has shown us options, another way.

Church As Centre = WRONG KINGDOM FLOW

2005-02-20T13:33:00.000Z

Which Way does church flow for you?
Lets start with some level ground before i say more. Jesus came for a lot of reasons, right, but can we agree that His primary objective was To Reconcile Man To God?
Ok - As Gods Agent of the Kingdom..... What, amongst many others im sure - is the Primary Purpose of the Church - as co heirs and partners with God?.....

In light of this:
It would be fair to say, Jesus came to earth with a revelation of the father that we might be reconciled to Him. As such - as his image bearers we take on the collective identity of bride- His bride, Church. As church - we live life in the world, reconciling others to Him, and thus as Church in and through all things - Extend the Kingdom. Build Church or Kingdom.

Can i rephrase that - Jesus Came - Reconcile To Father - Entity Of Church Born - Continue Reconciling as We Extend Kingdoms Rule and Reign as Church In And Through All Things - And As Such.................. Hasten The End - His Final Coming.

Thats FLOW 1.
The Other Flow is This.................. Allow It To Speak To You.

Jesus came with a revelation of the father, that we might be reconciled to Him (or as one comment in feedbacksaid...'far more consequencial 'to reconcile ALL THINGS' to be more wholistic and far reaching - well said that man!!). In that reconciling we take on the identity of Church - His Bride. As such, From this Separate Defined Place....We visit the world with a revelation of The Father, Win some to him, ultimately to the Church we take them back to, to keep them safe - until Heaven Comes.

Summary......... Jesus Comes, Reconcile Man To God, Entity of Church Separate To Life and Creation where we live out spiritual things, We go from there into the World, To win others to God, and back into the church. we then do all that we can to keep them - and us, safe till heaven comes?????????
But we cant, because we have removed the very dynamic and flow that means the end could come at all.

Your Church Context...Which way does it Flow?