A Prophetic Teacher once said, "If you dont go away from this with something of worth which you want to outwork into your life, or you hear what i am saying and there is no beneficial life application - Its Not Teaching". GAZ.DRUM@NTLWORLD.COM - LETS TALK This blog is dedicated to truths or views which lend themselves to LIFE APPLICATION when the walls of church are no longer there to '''KEEP US SAFE AND SEPARATE TILL HEAVEN'''.

Monday, October 03, 2005

Unity - A Crippling Charismatics Domain



I once shared my dreams for unity with a national leader - to which he replied: " I dont get the church unity in a town thing, i just dont see the point of even trying, for a start - the revelation for it probably came through the prophetic, most of the prophets who have been given voice are in the charismatic churches, unity will be centred around them, which means every gathering will be heavy on their culture style and trappings................... to the exclusion of many others - So whats the point of bothering?"

Well - exactly - what is the point if thats the scenario

There was a great picture someone shared this weekend in London, that they saw their city full of little lights, like christmas tree lights, but they didnt all come together to make one big light - instead there was these lightening sparks of acitvity between them, causing a connection between them all across the city.
Its not about getting them together - style and culture are unlikely to be the issues.

Its so sad that we think unity can be expressed in some way through our leaders - that if a pastors network exists then we have unity. Or - that because we have found a successfully mediating way to gather lots of different people into the same place for worship and word - unity exists. Start with centred thinking - end with centred thinking. Isnt that one fruit of pastor teacher foundations in the church - that everything gathers in and keeps 'in' - how they love thier gatherings to be visions that something is working or dissapointments that it is not.

Unity happens when we are no longer doing thinsg which keep us separated. Unity already exist in Christ, We ARE UNITY, we just do things - SINFUL things which separate off Gods unity.

When jenny from the tribe of anglican, and tommy from the tribe of pentecostal and fred from the tribe of households can be in their same workplace, not as representatives of the church or elsewhere, but of the church of wherever they are in Christ name and he is with them, that the kingdom is extending because they are not seeing unity as a yet another meeting to pamper them or survive the work place when they are not 'in church of elsewhere'. Then i believe we are seeing the evidence and hopefully the fruit of something much deeper of 'unity' of 'common union' taking place.

If doctrine is where we start - then our great our HUGE understanding of very little - will have undermined much.

Amen

oh - can i put this qoute in in style and stuff:
"We have a tendency to spiritualise our culture to the point that something uttlerly transition becomes spirtually eternal. We need to not hold onto culture which is in constant transition - but we do need to hold onto spiritual truths which are of enternal consequence"

Know of anywhere, anything or anyone where culture has been spiritualised to the point that something in transition has now become a hinderance, a stumbling block cause our flesh has tried to make it of eternal importance?

15 Comments:

Blogger Jon said...

The last 2 post are probably as well put as you've ever put it Gaz. Let pray for articulation that is clearer still and for ears to be opened to hear.

11:51 am

 
Blogger al bino said...

Cheers Jon
had a funny time at a 'transform our borough' conference in london at the weekend. There was such clarity coming from the front, such mud comign from the floor, every single question was laced with positional paradigms which made me feel utterly frustrated. But conversation were another thing all together, being able to help people get born, being able to reflect back - 'if you do this - people will say this - why thay are saying that is cause of this' etc - so many people will feel the bungee umbilical at the first step, to the point that a second step seems impossible.
I remain optimistic.

12:53 pm

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmm. Unity eh? Preached on it once, back in the days when I was a respected elder (was I ever)? Read out Psalm 133 (unity like precious oil running down Aaron's beard) and asked if anyone wanted to be anointed with oil. Lots of hands went up. What I didn't tell them was that the "oil" was two weeks' accumulated fat from our grill pan: bacon, sausage and beefbuger dripping no less, nicely warmed for maximum unpleasant smell. That's how God feels about disunity. Having recently left a group because, amongst other reasons, we no longer connected with what they were, and were doing, we have been mindful to guard ourselves against going into "critic" mode against a group of people that however much they have missed the point over what church is, they are still loved by God as much as I am...

That having been said, despite having to overdose on Hillsongs, I have had more "one-ness" in six weeks of making friends with people at the local AOG than I did in four years in NFI. One friend from those days is an exception to this: he continues to give up one evening every week to thrash me at badminton and help me lose weight, even though he knows I no longer believe in the organisational system that he as a leader helps to perpetuate. That to me is unity.

2:59 pm

 
Blogger al bino said...

Fantastic - deep fried unity!
Its back to old jim thwaites again im afraid 'we have to get post rebellion - where we are dirven by what we are mving towards and no longer what we are moving away from'. though - to be fair - its important we do know what we are moving away from, if we are to learn anything at all. a lot of people these days are qouting the new jerusalem coming down on ALL the earth as the we should be alligning with - no temple. but we know that anyways i guess - jesus having prophesied its destruction etc.

I guess its a good thing to be driven heavenward in our thinking and in our newly unfolding stories. A long term shaping based on 'what we are no longer' only ever leads to separation and denomiNATIONALISM, elitism and in part our old enemy - empire.


Yeah - - also, i have to say, i meet a few people who feel thay are very cynical now about the church - inherited church that is, and anything that smells like it (like a chip pan i guess sparky). But i have to say - much i what they unpack has far more in common with discernment.

Heres a thing..............
I meet people in meetings and things who justr have to leave, have to have a break - htings being said and done which just make them have physical symptoms resulting in the need to move - quickly. What is that? In my own jounry i can only refer to it as an increasing unbound spirit within, and an intense awareness of the things which have always offended the spirit - becoming offensive to you? now i dont think thats the same as carrying the sin of offence, but at times i beleive we are capable of feeling just an ounce of what God feels - and equally - needing to no longer be present. Man - whoever prayed 'God offend my heart with the things that offend yours' had no idea what they were letting themselves in for.


Its good for me - as a totally post construct boy, to find myself in a meeting from time to time - with other ellements of the body here in town, i find it sobering, i find my issue is mostly with the machine, not the people, the skins, not the wine old or new.
I would like to say that i am capable of a meaningful interraction with anyone, any person in Christ, just not with the orgnaisation behind them. Trouble is....bottom line..... some people are construct muppets, you are unable to connect with the person cause of the evident shirt up their back - they are no longer their own person, so i guess we need to be realistic..... so ..... connections as FAR AS IS POSSIBLE....cause you cant make a real connection to sin of empire and man.

7:09 am

 
Blogger al bino said...

Hi Diane - had a few thoughts about 'loves those in the machine and even blesses what they do'.
I think i believe that, on the basis that God is an opportunist, He sadly takes what we give him, any space at all.
So... im gonna be controversial - really controversial!!
I heard it said in discussion once..... are these people even following the real Jesus? only i have to ask, as the Jesus i know doesnt lead people into , into exlile from their land, into separation from their destiny in Christ - but some of what i see does this.
Im not sure Jesus can bless that. Sure - he will use our fumbling efforts - and thank God for that cause its what i bring at times. Im not convinced though that the work of some constructs is the work of Jesus - an im pretty convinced he cant and wont bless that. Also - i tell you no lie - ive met some construct leaders who are a gateway to the demonic far more than a gateway to christ. Who have burned far more bridges than they ever built, who have walked over and trodden on far more people than they ever drew to their feet.
To be fair, I/We need to pray against all injustices and bring action to bare on all injustices - even the ones done in Jesus name.

Funny old world

7:16 am

 
Blogger Sparky said...

Got my own blog now. Don't bother looking yet, but maybe in a couple of weeks time when I've had a chance to think of something to say. Need to make another date when you guys, Stuart and Heidi and all of us can meet up.

I was going to say last time that unity in the construct means toeing the party line i.e. agreeing with the leader(s) in other words "SUBMISSION." A common line is to make an allegation of being unsubmissive: if this is challenged or even questioned from the angle of asking for some substance to be brought in, this can be used as evidence of unsubmissiveness for not agreeing with the leader over the unsubmissiveness... My own first hand experience of this is fairly minor, but I have witnessed some pretty horrible abuses of authority in the name of unity over the years.

James Thwaites hits the nail on the head in "Renegotiating the Church Contract" when he talks about Pastor Tim in one of the early chapters. The ten year party for Timmy Community Church is no more than a celebration of its survival and Timbo himself draws a circle around meetings and operations he is involved in calling them "church" and by implication those things we all do that are not inside his circle are, by definition, NOT "church". Hardly embracing, and will only appeal to people who want to live in Tim's circle, which will mainly be, like you said, a sheep pen.

Just going to register our new church with the charity commission. We want to be very broad in our approach, to appeal to the widest possible cross section of society. I'm going to call it, "South Devon 44-year-old guitar-playing married-with-three-kids charismatic kebab-eating maths-teaching overweight-but-fighting-it Daewoo-driving Zeppelin/Queen/U2-listening camp-holiday-enjoying New Testament Tabernacle Redeemed United Jubilee Gateway Safeway St. Luke the Healer/Doctor (prayer, paracetemol and deep-fried anointing oil) Kwik Save Covenant Love New Pioneering Intergalactic Frontiers Community Christian Fellowship Assembly Church."

You could cut out the middle as far as I'm concerned and just call it "South Devon Church" but I must admit to liking the "Kwik Save" bit...

3:03 pm

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi
prednisone
http://viagra-store.info/00001001.htm?prednisone
[url=http://viagra-store.info/00001001.htm?prednisone]prednisone[/url]
augmentin
http://viagra-store.info/00001002.htm?augmentin
[url=http://viagra-store.info/00001002.htm?augmentin]augmentin[/url]
levaquin
http://viagra-store.info/00001003.htm?levaquin
[url=http://viagra-store.info/00001003.htm?levaquin]levaquin[/url]
prilosec
http://viagra-store.info/00001004.htm?prilosec
[url=http://viagra-store.info/00001004.htm?prilosec]prilosec[/url]
Thanks

2:27 am

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good day! Do you use Twitter? I'd like to follow you if that would be ok. I'm undoubtedly enjoying your blog and look forward to new updates.


My weblog :: Louis Vuitton Bags

5:52 pm

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wonderful goods from you, man. I've take into account your stuff previous to and you're just
too great. I actually like what you have obtained right here, really like
what you're stating and the way in which wherein you assert it. You make it entertaining and you continue to take care of to keep it sensible. I cant wait to read much more from you. This is really a wonderful website.

my web-site: Soldes Air Jordan

7:21 am

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You actually make it seem so easy with your presentation but I find this matter to be really something which I think I would never understand.
It seems too complex and very broad for me. I am looking forward for your
next post, I'll try to get the hang of it!

Review my web blog Cheap LeBron James Shoes

5:20 am

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello there I am so happy I found your blog page, I really found you by accident, while I was looking on Digg for something else,
Anyhow I am here now and would just like to
say kudos for a marvelous post and a all round entertaining blog (I also love the theme/design), I don't have time to read it all at the minute but I have book-marked it and also added in your RSS feeds, so when I have time I will be back to read more, Please do keep up the awesome work.

Here is my web site ... Boutique Air Max

11:27 am

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello, Neat post. There's a problem along with your site in web explorer, would test this? IE nonetheless is the market leader and a good section of people will leave out your fantastic writing because of this problem.

My site ... Air Max Pas Cher **

2:07 am

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello just wanted to give you a quick heads up. The text in your post seem to be
running off the screen in Opera. I'm not sure if this is a formatting issue or something to do with web browser compatibility but I thought I'd post to let
you know. The style and design look great though!
Hope you get the issue fixed soon. Kudos

Feel free to surf to my webpage: Michael Kors Outlet

10:51 am

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its like you read my mind! You appear to know a lot about this, like you wrote the book in it or something.

I think that you could do with a few pics to drive
the message home a little bit, but other than that,
this is magnificent blog. A great read. I will definitely be
back.

Here is my web-site; next page

6:25 pm

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's awesome in favor of me to have a web page, which is good in support of my knowledge. thanks admin

Feel free to surf to my site ... KD Shoes

3:04 am

 

Post a Comment

<< Home