A New One On ME........... lets work it out

Ok - thought i would try something new. Usually i am prone to making heartfelt statement, usually because im shouting at the silence where i see deficits. On this occassion, i really just want to chat - if anyone is listening.
In the uk, the church is in terminal decline, we are at approx 10% and dropping, some amercian futurists now say we are in terminal decline, past the point of no natural return without a total change or/and an inbreaking of God.
The question i ask (and mostly it relates to the saint being in a through all things), is this:

We are one in ten Right? What is going to result in that one in ten having a radical effect, how is that likely to unfold from where it is now, what type of people do the need to be, where do they need to be, how do they need to be. If we are to have a hope.

Answers on a postcard to..................................................... comments.
Look fwd to hearing from folks.
gaz

Cut and Paste

Hi, ive put something rather special in as a comment. Its a transcript of a talk by larry randolf, given in California in 05. Its has some profound angles on Gods desired relationships and why we risk our lives keeping him boxed.
Go To This BLog Article - and Comments
Enjoy - its a goody!!

See Prodigals "comments"

Modern V Post Modern 'SPEAK'

Cant recall if ive blogged on this but cant be bothered to trawl back to see - sorry if i repeat myself.
Sarah in one of the article comments where we have been chatting stuff around commented "I really love the dynamic aspect of learning through dialogue. I find it much more effective than the static lecture-style of traditional teaching and education". It prompted me.
There are two key transitional aspects of how we 'have' been communicating and how we 'Are' beginning to find it necessary to communicate. They conveniently sit well within modernism and post modernism.
Perhaps i should have called this Debate V Dialogue as thats more accurately what it is ( i wont touch on this here, but the whole lecture 'you sit i speak' thing is total modernism - where the less learned sit at the feet of the specialist - again something which is shifting. Interesting to note though - if this is becoming accepted as a poor method of teaching - why is it the primary method employed to communicate in church gatherings?).

Debate - most modernistic specialists (and their minions or those they have mentored) generally communicate through debate. It says 'this is what this means they enter into conversation with an already developed perspective which they state. Some of the conflict in modern/ post modern transitions for church is said to be the risk of POLARISATION - where we have two opinions, which become increasingly separate and off to the ends of opposing spectrums - even if they began quite central on the spectrum scale. Debate - does not end in polarisation............. it begins there. i think - as far as that goes - they also think it is right, until persuaded otherwise by a better statement of perspective'. As such it is generally full of both attack and defence........... therefore quickly moving to taking sides and moving further away from anything resembling co operation or a mediative view point.
Dialogue on the other hand has very different rules of engagment - statements are not made, instead views are offered into the mix, conversation is had with the potential for both parties walking away with a developed, informed, sharpened perspective. A verbal interraction takes place which both honours and values the view of the other. It does not mean we submit our values and views to another, but it does perhaps mean that if its meant to stand - it will.
Can you imagine being in relationship with someone who is modern - at takes their 'positions' out of the class room, out of the church pulpit and onto the street? people either wouldnt give them the time of day, or would become dependants who have been assimilated into the collective. When we have a position of leadership /eldership or even function in a leader at work setting - modernists are such a nightmare to be around when it comes to wanting to process anything new - not the best friend of the prophets thats for sure........... and at times, they even risk being the physical manifestation of a stronghold, no longer channels for Gods unfolding purposes, but bottlenecks! Im not saying that we dont need to be guardians of truth...but how we communicate truth in this shifting landscape, will determine how and if people walk into it.

Now - take this into some of the present tensions of church transition!!!!!
Just sit down modernist (most people leaders in their 50's onwards unless they did woodstock - but actually you can get a 20 year old so out of step with his own generation he is a modernist)
.sorry - my 'in brackets ' bits are longer than the other text...........start again...yeah so sit a modernist down with a post modernist............. youve got one poor guy going in wanting to SHARE a perspective and see where it goes, youve got the other fella holding onto a position waiting to debate and see who wins - see who gets disproved.
Often - you have one guy going in anxiously workign through how he is goign to justify some new thinking to someone who is holding onto the point that they have arrived at.
The modernist - will often walk away feeling he has maintained a position and won a piece of ground - the post modernist if he is insecure - walking away feeling the kingdom has just gone backwards and not advanced - he will also submit to the lecture of the specialist - who has been to seminary so must be right.
However..................... the true post modernist - knows the rules of the game, that doesnt mean he goes in armed to win the game............... it means that he refuses to play at all.
Debate V Dialogue...................... one is almost not conducive to the fruit of the spirit at all if you think about it!

did i mention the baptists

I was at a European gathering in Prague in 05 with around 50 people from all over, people doing stuff out of the box, head and heart. We were all based at theeee Baptist Seminary of Europe, an odd place for us to meet one might think. Anyways - the funny things is, we got into a lot of trouble for doing an unauthorised baptism one afternoon in the fountain pool. Get that! getting done by the baptist for baptising someone without going through propper channels. I guess it being hot was no excuse for cooling a crate of beer in the same fountain the day before, with their having to drain and unblock the fountain of beer labels which had become unglued and floated off, probably didnt help things. www.connecteurope.org

See Prodigals "comments"

Good stuff going in in the prodigals comments section - good chats - been writing a lot there and not here in response to stuff.

Home From The War

Ive written this before but not here, but felt it goes well with some of the 'being more human' thread of conversation.

Some years back i felt i got a strong word from the Lord, i wrote in on my mirror facing me in the office (gosh he's so vain - a mirror facing him! - it was artily shattered so i cant see my face actualy)
Anyways - the word was "Gaz (god calls me gaz, not garry - cool eh) You Need To Come Home From The War"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And that was it for months - didnt know what it meant, didnt get what it was about at all, not usual for me, usually im pretty quick.
So anyways..........
My wife bought me this book for Christmas called 'the soldiers return'. I like reading war books - love war documentaries etc. My dad fought in Burma against the Japanese, which effected him and therefore our family to some degree - every one who's touched war brings a shadow home with them.
So i start reading this book, get through the first chapter and then it was gathering dust for months. End of story - or so i thought.
I realised that i had bought into a very specific part of the Christian story, that i was draw to one elment of what it means to be a believer.......... i was a soldier, i was in Gods army, i was FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT, people would fall to my left and to my right but my face was set like flint etc etc. There is a surprising amount of war and soldier language and reference points to our faith - dont you think?

Anyways - thats me to the bone - Garry is derived from Gareth which actually means 'spear bearer for the king' etc etc - the scene was set there really.

So................... part two of the word comes from someone. "gaz - if your always at war - your in danger of forgetting what it is your fighting for". then it hits me......................
I read this book for the first chapter.............. the guys in war, he has a long travel home on a boat, then a train, then a logn bot about his walk through his old village, towards his street and eventually up the steps of his home, puts his duffle bag down - turns the handle,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and,,,,,,,,, i have no idea what happened after that, because i was completely dis interested.

Actually i remember what glued it together for me - it was a random scripture someone had sent to me, it was all about their BEING PEACE IN THE LAND for many years.

I was interested in war - in the fight, but i wasnt interested in the other stuff - home doesnt make you a hero, doesnt get applauded in ministry journals, doesnt get songs written about it.

God had said 'GAZ - YOU NEED TO COME HOME FROM THE WAR'. I needed to go through a paradigm shift, a shift in values, a shift in focus.
What the heck does it mean to have peace in the land................. oh my goodness, thats what its meant to be about.........what does it mean to have peace in the land - for 'it to be well with you and yours'? Somehow, i felt God was saying that i was at risk of fighting the good fight, but forgetting what the good fight was for, that it is for literal things, thinsg that will effect my family, my home, my street. i needed to be in some of that, to relish some of that, to give myself to some of that, or i will foget the whole point of the war. We need to be embodying the promises of God - this in and of itself is testimony - and it overcomes.

A place in London has a 'tranform our city' thing going with lots of churches and organisations working to that end, christian or otherwise. their publicity serves as a good reminder that there is a life that God wants for us, not just in heaven, but here and now. Surely this is the fight?
and their i will end:

“Come to Haringey…..where our schools are over-achieving; where houses are homes and lives are whole; where it’s safe to walk the streets day and night; where racial and cultural barriers no longer divide; where Jesus is the topic of conversation in cafes and street corners; where the knowledge of the glory of God is everywhere….. pipe dream or reality?"

Conference - Return of Prodigals?? YEAH RIGHT!

Some of my friends are at a conference, some great folks from a local congregation. (hey its snowing here , just wanted to mention that, its england, 2" of snow and everything shuts down, indistry stops and we all starve, may even have to speak to our neighbours so thoughts id mention it) Yeah, so they are at this conference called something like 'the Prodigals return'. Now ive watched a bit of the video version, and whilst i didnt watch it all, the general vibe seemd to be based upon a very dysfunctional enterpretation of scripture to re enforce and equally dysfunctional paradigm of church.
SO..... the general premise.................... The Prodigals (i.e; those who are in rebellion and left) are going to return, and we must prepare. In short, people who have left the church who are most probably in rebellion, unwilling to come under authority, ill disciplined waifs, are going to come back to the church, and we the church (as organisation and human construct) must prepare, so no more bitching, back biting, criticising each other, lets get our house in order so they will like it the second time around - cook all our fatted calves now so it smeel appetising.. WHAT A TOTAL CROCK OF BROWN SMELLY STUFF.
Firstly, the only conceivable paradigm of the prodigal story relates to a deeply personal reconciling with the father, and the fathers house - namely our eternal destiny, the church construct is not Gods house, if anything on earth is, it us as individuals with the spirits indwelling. So - thats a pile of pants. Secondly, the prodigal was not in crisis with his father...... interestingly enough............. he was desperate for independance which he went off to explore. One of the most natural of human processes. He didnt complain about his environment either, this was a deeply personal decision, apparantly not to do with external factors but instead one of inner searching.

So, how you make this 'parable' - this illustration of deep human issues - about the church as centre, i have no idea. How you then turn that into preparation by changing what takes place there - i do not see either in the story. Proof texting at its worst!
OH ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD its is the congregational default mechanism of dysfunctional parent to assume the issue is with the child int he first place. Of the hundreds of people i have met who have left the construct over 15 years............. i could count on one hand those id percieve to be in actual rebellion to the Father.

From my own perspective - there is another prodigal who is absent from the parables, the one who distanced himself from the Father, went off and used his gifts / inheritance wisely and was able to stand on his own two feet. Shortly after all of his successes, he came back to the father and said 'father - i choose you, you are worthy of all my best efforts because of who you are, not because of what i need or can get from you.'
I know as many folks like this as i do ones who have fallen on their faces and come back to the father.
The issue is not how crap it is away from God, but that proximity to the Father and intimacy with the Father is central to any given situation or outcome.
Personally i feel this one parable, and one angle on the story feeds our victim mentality, that you have to be on your knees before you come to the father, when in fact, we are told to walk boldly into His presence, where i am certain that all, weak or strong - will fall prostrate in His presence.
Know any Part 2 Prodigals?? who went off in search of independance, the ability to stand on their own two feet and chose Christ? Chose the Father?

Im not complaining - just trying to paint a fuller picture (well i am complaining if the prodigal story is about church growth), i think its sad if we do the 'jesus is our crutch' theme as the main story here. Bit like the guy who came up to me and said 'id thought about becoming a Christian - i mean, it all makes sense, but i havent because ive not been abused nor am i a addict'!

Will we only come to Him when we are weak? or will we also come to Him when we are strong, when it isnt about us, when its only about Him?.

I dont agree with this breakdown but it was useful once:
A Prodigal - Someone who has separated themselves due to rebellion with God.
Action - Watch and Pray for their Return
Lost Sheep (which actually is still in the prodigal story) - Lost Their Way
Action - Go Get Them

But, then i would add this one.
Cant Even Walk - I discovered this definition in a Kev Prosche song "when you cant even walk - onto the field of Grace" those who are just so wounded we need to carry them regardless.
g-man